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Surprised to see Chicago that much higher than Toronto. The two cities are nearly equivalent in metro size, but the latter feels a lot more international.
Miami and CDMX are also low here IMO.
Chicago and Toronto?
Chicago MSA has 9-10 million people. Toronto Area has 5.9 million people...
Chicago MSA has 9-10 million people. Toronto Area has 5.9 million people...
Toronto "area" has 6.7M
The comparable figure to Chicago's MSA (11k sq mi) would be the Golden Horseshoe (12k sq mi) which also is home to 9.7M people.
They are neck and neck.
Chicago MSA has 9-10 million people. Toronto Area has 5.9 million people...
American's are very generous with their MSA/CSA areas compared to Canada. If we used the same definitions and bloating of city sizes as the U.S, the whole GTA would be at about 10 million+ as well.
Surprised to see Chicago that much higher than Toronto. The two cities are nearly equivalent in metro size, but the latter feels a lot more international.
Miami and CDMX are also low here IMO.
Chicago has an economy about 6th in the World. Toronto is like equal to Miami or so which would be like 13th in the United States (maybe more like 11th if CMA were equal to MSA’s)
While there are other factors, the scale of Chicagos economy propels it above Toronto.
And all American cities suffer on these lists cause the American Economy is so large and domestic market so expansive a lot is not captured since it’s merely domestic. While Canadian cities get tons of “foreign” investment from America.
Fwiw, here are the full lists for North American cities:
1. NYC (1)
2. Los Angeles (6)
3. Chicago (7)
4. Washington D.C (12)
5. San Francisco (15)
6. Toronto (18)
7. Boston (20)
8. Montreal (29)
9. Mexico City (31)
10. Miami (32)
11. Atlanta (34)
12. Vancouver (37)
13. Houston (38)
14. Seattle (44)
15. Dallas (48)
16. Philadelphia (50)
17. Minneapolis (67)
18. Phoenix (87)
19. Monterrey (109)
20. Guadalajara (115)
And for outlook:
1. NYC (6)
2. SF (13)
3. Minneapolis (22)
4. Montreal (23)
5. Toronto (34)
6. Boston (37)
7. Atlanta (38)
8. Vancouver (46)
9. Washington DC (49)
10. Seattle (52)
11. Chicago (54)
12. Los Angeles (55)
13. Philadelphia (70)
14. Houston (72)
15. Dallas (78)
16. Phoenix (79)
17. Miami (87)
18. Monterrey (99)
19. Guadalajara (110)
20. Mexico City (111)
You'd have to provide a link for more of this detailed info right here. I can't seem to find any info regarding Miami & Atlanta on the original link. However, it doesn't surprise that Miami and Atlanta are #10 & #11 for North American cities, meaning that both cities are below Mexico City and Montreal, but above Seattle, Dallas, Houston, and Philadelphia.
The sky's the limit for Miami and Atlanta. Atlanta currently has the busiest air hub in the world with ATL, so that should help the economy immensely, and Miami is rapidly expanding into a cosmopolitan, financial and economic center on it's own and when Brightline gets completed plus new connections from Asia and Australia to MIA, that will change to fortunes of Miami into an economic powerhouse similar to NYC, Toronto, & Chicago.
American's are very generous with their MSA/CSA areas compared to Canada. If we used the same definitions and bloating of city sizes as the U.S, the whole GTA would be at about 10 million+ as well.
Can vouch that MSA/CSAs in the US are somewhat generous, Mexico City expands to 31M people for its greater metro if you use roughly the same area as NYC's MSA which has ~20M (7550 sq miles vs 6720).
Chicago has an economy about 6th in the World. Toronto is like equal to Miami or so which would be like 13th in the United States (maybe more like 11th if CMA were equal to MSA’s)
While there are other factors, the scale of Chicagos economy propels it above Toronto.
And all American cities suffer on these lists cause the American Economy is so large and domestic market so expansive a lot is not captured since it’s merely domestic. While Canadian cities get tons of “foreign” investment from America.
What are you basing Toronto's GDP on? MSA and CSA comparisons? So if you want to do that then find a comparable MSA/CSA metric for the region Toronto anchors, and then calculate GDP. Otherwise don't go throwing Toronto has the Same GDP as Miami stuff around. Others have correctly pointed out that Canada does not have MSA's and CSA's and if it did, it would be just under 10 million so you'd have to figure out the GDP of that. Otoh - if you insist on using something like an urban area metric for Toronto instead of MSA/CSA - then please use the following for the GDP calculations of U.S cities
The GDP of Ontario with 15 million people is 777 Billion USD. The GGH is 66 percent of that population so the GDP of that would be around 512 Billion USD. I suspect the GGH is more prosperous than more rural parts of Ontario but I digress it would probably only add a few 10 billion onto the 512 Billion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irehdna
Surprised to see Chicago that much higher than Toronto. The two cities are nearly equivalent in metro size, but the latter feels a lot more international.
Miami and CDMX are also low here IMO.
You have to factor in that the differences may not be that great between the top 10 or 20 cities. Additionally, the U.S is a more powerful economy than Canada for obvious reasons, Size matters and the U.S has not only a higher absolute GDP than Canada, but also on a per capita basis. Toronto definitely feels more international due to the huge number of different ethnicities and high foreign born, but there are other factors at play than just those. The Toronto region is growing by about a half million every 5 years and with Canada now increasing immigration from 300K per year to a half million per year, I suspect Toronto's population will continue to grow heavily so it'll probably by brute force of numbers move up the rankings.
Also Kearney is using whatever they use for their rankings. I don't know how definitive this would be.
What are you basing Toronto's GDP on? MSA and CSA comparisons? So if you want to do that then find a comparable MSA/CSA metric for the region Toronto anchors, and then calculate GDP. Otherwise don't go throwing Toronto has the Same GDP as Miami stuff around. Others have correctly pointed out that Canada does not have MSA's and CSA's and if it did, it would be just under 10 million so you'd have to figure out the GDP of that. Otoh - if you insist on using something like an urban area metric for Toronto instead of MSA/CSA - then please use the following for the GDP calculations of U.S cities
The GDP of Ontario with 15 million people is 777 Billion USD. The GGH is 66 percent of that population so the GDP of that would be around 512 Billion USD. I suspect the GGH is more prosperous than more rural parts of Ontario but I digress it would probably only add a few 10 billion onto the 512 Billion.
You have to factor in that the differences may not be that great between the top 10 or 20 cities. Additionally, the U.S is a more powerful economy than Canada for obvious reasons, Size matters and the U.S has not only a higher absolute GDP than Canada, but also on a per capita basis. Toronto definitely feels more international due to the huge number of different ethnicities and high foreign born, but there are other factors at play than just those. The Toronto region is growing by about a half million every 5 years and with Canada now increasing immigration from 300K per year to a half million per year, I suspect Toronto's population will continue to grow heavily so it'll probably by brute force of numbers move up the rankings.
Also Kearney is using whatever they use for their rankings. I don't know how definitive this would be.
It’s CMA vs MSA. Chicago has the same GDP as Ontario.
So like if you pretend a Toronto “MSA” has 9 instead of 7 million people that places it 10th or so. (Actually 9/15*777B=480B)
It’s CMA vs MSA. Chicago has the same GDP as Ontario.
So like if you pretend a Toronto “MSA” has 9 instead of 7 million people that places it 10th or so. (Actually 9/15*777B=480B)
I don't know why this is so hard for some people. A CMA and MSA are not the same thing. MSA's are more expansive. If you think they are the same, I suggest you research the two more than you have. Toronto would have a greater population if it used MSA measures and greater still if it used CSA.
A CMA in the case of Toronto is even smaller than a contiguous urbanized area. This isn't 'pretending' it is about understanding what you are comparing accurately.
Regardless of measure, Chicago does have a greater GDP than Toronto that is no doubt, but it would be great if individuals either understood the differences in what they are comparing or simply admit they don't understand and not compare. Another discrepancy, for example Healthcare costs are 2X higher in the U.S than Canada and Canadians pay for healthcare through taxation not privately.
That all said, you can't even compare 9/15ths of Ontario's economy to the GDP of a inferred Toronto MSA or CSA because there is more concentration of wealth in the Toronto region than rural parts.
You might be disappointed, though. Besides having the expanded lists in the appendices, most of the info is the same as what’s posted on the website.
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