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You can't compare cities because it's going to be apples to oranges due to city to metro population ratio differences. If you're going to compare cities, you can't compare 17 square mile Hartford to 323 square mile Memphis. It just doesn't work.
San Diego is 325 square miles and Boston is 48 square miles. You can't compare the two. San Diego city makes up nearly half its metro area. The City of Boston makes up only 13% of its metro area. It messes with the stats, which is why comparing metro to metro gives you an even apples to apples comparison.
City boundaries are completely arbitrary, metro areas aren't.
Huh? City boundaries are completely arbitrary, metro areas aren't?
It's all about ''rates'' when comparing cities, metros, or CSAs.
Camden's murder rate has always fluctuated. Its homicide rate in 2006 was similar to today and it peaked in the 2000s in 2012.
Outside Philadelphia city limits, there are four times as many homicides as the City of Boston. I think that's significant.
Nothing in Montco Delco or Bucks has a large homicide rate, or even a murder rate to begin with. Camden, in NJ, is irrelevant even though it's a "suburb". Not sure why you bought up Philadelphia anyway. Bostons suburbs have gangs, Philadelphia's doesn't.
So first you went from the paltry black population in metro seattle (4,000,000 people; 250,000 are black) to seattle police dealing with ''minorities''. A black population being watered down even further by high gentrification rates.
How many unarmed ''minorities'' died at Seattle PD hand? Not many. In fact there were years when any and all of those killed were white...c;mon it's Seattle.
As for the 2015 DOJ report, there was a finding of no discriminatory policing and that of the cases where excessive force was used (non-deadly) only 20% were held to be excessive force (using hand, baton, flashlight etc). This 20% of excessive force use was limited to a few cops.
It's funny that Seattle is the epicenter of the national crusade against black police brutality when there isn't even a ghetto in Seattle.
Don't tell me CHAZ or BONO or whatever this ridiculous attempt to be Seattle revolutionaires is black dominated.
Even in cities with actual black populations, this is a white hijacked cause. Lots more whites out than blacks.
So, given the don't care attitude about black-black homicides, it's still Some Black Lives Matter.
"Following a comprehensive investigation, the Justice Department today announced its findings that the Seattle Police Department (SPD) has engaged in a pattern or practice of excessive force that violates the Constitution and federal law."
Seattle police and police in the metro area have killed plenty of black people in just the last couple of years. Several of them have been under suspect conditions: Charleena Lyles, Manuel Ellis, Shaun Fuhr, among others.
Seattle (and many Western cities) may not have ghettos in the same way that Philadelphia or Chicago do, but there are plenty of violent, minority-dominated areas where police regularly use excessive force in ways they wouldn't dare in weathier white areas. And yes, the people leading the charge at CHAZ are black - Raz Simone, Omari Salisbury, and many others.
"Following a comprehensive investigation, the Justice Department today announced its findings that the Seattle Police Department (SPD) has engaged in a pattern or practice of excessive force that violates the Constitution and federal law."
Seattle police and police in the metro area have killed plenty of black people in just the last couple of years. Several of them have been under suspect conditions: Charleena Lyles, Manuel Ellis, Shaun Fuhr, among others.
Seattle (and many Western cities) may not have ghettos in the same way that Philadelphia or Chicago do, but there are plenty of violent, minority-dominated areas where police regularly use excessive force in ways they wouldn't dare in weathier white areas. And yes, the people leading the charge at CHAZ are black - Raz Simone, Omari Salisbury, and many others.
That's why I stated that the DOJ found cases of excessive force (20% of all force cases), not deadly force, and no pattern of discriminatory policing. Excessive force examples being baton, hands, flashlight) and the scenarios prompting the uses ie suspect back-talk. But no pervavise use of deadly force was mentioned. Lots of talk about de-escalation, reform, oversight, bias training.
Of course BLM is led by blacks as only blacks can be members.
So you quote 3 names killed in a metro area of 4,000,000 since 2017? None of it is good but Seattle has to be occupied because you show one black woman killed in 2017, a dude killed in Tacoma, and one in 2020 by SPD after the decedent beat a woman, stole a baby; this was a baby rescue from a violent felon? Seattle's in shut-down over this?
How exactly are you going to eliminate deadly encounters with police? I know it's limited to white officers, another disingenous point to all of this outrage, so what's the plan, besides eliminating the police altogether to eliminate black deaths by police. 10 unarmed blacks killed by police last year, 7 of them were fleeing. How do you eliminate all of that to -0- at a national level?
Why aren't these white Seattle sqwuatters against all police killings of civilians? Why is this only a black issue?
Why is it OK then to have say 9 whites killed by cops in one year, no ''minorities'' killed at all?
Last edited by coventry80; 06-18-2020 at 08:47 PM..
Nothing in Montco Delco or Bucks has a large homicide rate, or even a murder rate to begin with. Camden, in NJ, is irrelevant even though it's a "suburb". Not sure why you bought up Philadelphia anyway. Bostons suburbs have gangs, Philadelphia's doesn't.
For starters there is no White Lives Matter, Latinos Lives Matter, or Asian Lives Matter movements.
These groups homicide rates are below average to begin with while black crime, especially homicides and especially among black males (16-34) is way above average. Consider black males are about 6% of the population yet there violent crime rates are vastly out of proportion.
So while there is a Black Lives Matter for white cop-black encounters, there is nothing for the 1,000s+ blacks, especially black males, lives lost to violent homicide. Something like 10 unarmed black males were killed by police in 2019, and only 3 were not fleeing while 25 black lives were lost to gun violence the last weekend of May.
So, to be honest, only Some Black Lives Matter as no one cares, mentions, and are certainly not marching for black homicide victims.
25 killed in Chicago the weekend of May 30-31; 18 in 24 hours May 31 and no one cares, just chalked up to ''oh well, it is what it is''.
You can't say Black Lives Matter when the real lives lost issue is within the black community and can't be mentioned.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just may not be aware of certain things. But your comments are teetering on inflammatory and offensive...
First of all, there doesn't need to be a "White Lives Matter" movement in a nation that has reinforced the ideological supremacy of white lives from their very introduction to this territory. Only ignorant people, whether willful or not, would believe this reinforcement isn't still occurring across a plethora of mediums today...
All of these other minority groups have campaigns and causes dedicated to them, by them, for them. You see the modern black movement in the spotlight doesn't mean these other groups don't exist....
"Some" black lives may matter to you, don't project your armchair analysis or personal perspective to everyone else. There are and have been black groups dedicated to stopping intersectional violence among black people for a long time. If for some reason you are in disbelief of this, your Google works just like everyone else's, just look up movements and groups dedicated to combatting said violence in any sizable city...
Again, just because you aren't aware of these things doesn't mean they are nonexistent...
Next, stop deflecting from the specific issue of police brutality towards black people and using a strawman to conflate that with other issues. Police brutality towards African-Americans is a problem, has been a problem, this isn't a new thing by a long shot. The message has to be put out there to law enforcement, white people, and all nonblack groups that black lives matter, because these groups, most particularly white people and the litany of systems they control, have shown that they don't value black lives. If they did, there wouldnt still be disproportionate treatment of blacks by law enforcement, banks, a million employment sectors, educational institutions, patrons, etc...
You're obviously not black, since you lack awareness or knowledge of black movements towards black violence. Black people are no more prone to violence and murder than anyone else. You're on the right track if your first thought is "damn, blacks have way disproportionate crime rates". If you aren't trying to be willfully inflammatory or discriminatory or divisive, the next question you should be asking yourself is why, since it's clear and obvious and proven that African descended peoples aren't inherently more violent by nature, and if your inquiries are really about educating yourself and others rather than confirmation bias and perpetuation of racism, you'll find the causes to the effect are all rooted from the very source that is being publicly battled in present day...
To be sure, seeking ans finding truth isn't for the faint of heart, and it takes an ability to be transparent with oneself and able to digest whatever information you find honestly, even if that information isn't what you're looking for or sought out looking for...
Camden's murder rate has always fluctuated. Its homicide rate in 2006 was similar to today and it peaked in the 2000s in 2012.
Outside Philadelphia city limits, there are four times as many homicides as the City of Boston. I think that's significant.
You must share these numbers.
The city of Boston had 38 homicides in 2019 and 52 in 2018, that would mean suburban Philadelphia recorded 152 and 208 respectively. I really need to see a county by county comparison between metro Boston and metro Philadelphia. You are throwing out very bold statements without any factual substantiation.
As other posters mentioned you are also selectively stating your thoughts without taking into account relevant information. Suburban Philadelphia (not the city) has over 600k more people than suburban Boston.
Again, not sure what you are trying to prove, but I will repeat myself since the statement passed you by... The suburbs of Boston, Philadelphia and Atlanta are overwhelmingly safe, not sure why this is even a debate on this thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj
Chester is in DelCo
Chester's crime record is awful, but it is a very isolated region of crime.
When measuring Delaware County crime with and without Chester it shows. Not saying Chester should be excluded, but some other posters attempting to paint a picture that suburban Philadelphia is dangerous because of a few isolated high crime areas is not accurate nor fair in the context of the conversation.
Last edited by cpomp; 06-19-2020 at 07:29 AM..
Reason: edit
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just may not be aware of certain things. But your comments are teetering on inflammatory and offensive...
First of all, there doesn't need to be a "White Lives Matter" movement in a nation that has reinforced the ideological supremacy of white lives from their very introduction to this territory. Only ignorant people, whether willful or not, would believe this reinforcement isn't still occurring across a plethora of mediums today...
All of these other minority groups have campaigns and causes dedicated to them, by them, for them. You see the modern black movement in the spotlight doesn't mean these other groups don't exist....
"Some" black lives may matter to you, don't project your armchair analysis or personal perspective to everyone else. There are and have been black groups dedicated to stopping intersectional violence among black people for a long time. If for some reason you are in disbelief of this, your Google works just like everyone else's, just look up movements and groups dedicated to combatting said violence in any sizable city...
Again, just because you aren't aware of these things doesn't mean they are nonexistent...
Next, stop deflecting from the specific issue of police brutality towards black people and using a strawman to conflate that with other issues. Police brutality towards African-Americans is a problem, has been a problem, this isn't a new thing by a long shot. The message has to be put out there to law enforcement, white people, and all nonblack groups that black lives matter, because these groups, most particularly white people and the litany of systems they control, have shown that they don't value black lives. If they did, there wouldnt still be disproportionate treatment of blacks by law enforcement, banks, a million employment sectors, educational institutions, patrons, etc...
You're obviously not black, since you lack awareness or knowledge of black movements towards black violence. Black people are no more prone to violence and murder than anyone else. You're on the right track if your first thought is "damn, blacks have way disproportionate crime rates". If you aren't trying to be willfully inflammatory or discriminatory or divisive, the next question you should be asking yourself is why, since it's clear and obvious and proven that African descended peoples aren't inherently more violent by nature, and if your inquiries are really about educating yourself and others rather than confirmation bias and perpetuation of racism, you'll find the causes to the effect are all rooted from the very source that is being publicly battled in present day...
To be sure, seeking ans finding truth isn't for the faint of heart, and it takes an ability to be transparent with oneself and able to digest whatever information you find honestly, even if that information isn't what you're looking for or sought out looking for...
Good day to you!
If there's a police brutality issue, it's pervasive and not limited to the black community. Sorry but the occassional black stop the violence marches don't cut it if that's what you're referring to about ''black movements towards black violence'' since you don't specify otherwise. Well aware of those marches or those ''violence interrupter'' programs cities pay ''community groups'' to do...all $$ down the drain.
When is the black community going to come to the table and maturely address its internal crime issues?
Black violent crime rates, especially among black males, are vastly out of proportion; no one said it's an inherent violence, the rates as facts speak for themselves. If there's a disproportionate amount of police brutality it's due to a disproportionate amount of black crime. Since black crime rates are disproportionate, the negative collateral issues will be disproportionate as well ie. police brutality.
Decreasing black crime rates will decrease police brutality, incarceration rates, deaths during police encounters etc. 10 unarmed blacks killed by police last year and 7 of them fled or otherwise struggled. This is the biggest issue facing black America?
Good luck in eliminating or defunding the police; that will cost even more black lives.
Better yet, why don't you and your comrades join police departments and bring the needed reform from within? See how long you last on that job...lol.
Always with the inflammatory or offensive nonsense...yet always the call for ''discussions''...that end up with emotional hemophiliacs like you mushroom clouding lol
Last edited by coventry80; 06-19-2020 at 10:27 AM..
If there's a police brutality issue, it's pervasive and not limited to the black community. Sorry but the occassional black stop the violence marches don't cut it if that's what you're referring to about ''black movements towards black violence'' since you don't specify otherwise. Well aware of those marches or those ''violence interrupter'' programs cities pay ''community groups'' to do...all $$ down the drain.
When is the black community going to come to the table and maturely address its internal crime issues?
Black violent crime rates, especially among black males, are vastly out of proportion; no one said it's an inherent violence, the rates as facts speak for themselves. If there's a disproportionate amount of police brutality it's due to a disproportionate amount of black crime. Since black crime rates are disproportionate, the negative collateral issues will be disproportionate as well ie. police brutality.
Decreasing black crime rates will decrease police brutality, incarceration rates, deaths during police encounters etc. 10 unarmed blacks killed by police last year and 7 of them fled or otherwise struggled. This is the biggest issue facing black America?
Good luck in eliminating or defunding the police; that will cost even more black lives.
Better yet, why don't you and your comrades join police departments and bring the needed reform from within? See how long you last on that job...lol.
Always with the inflammatory or offensive nonsense...yet always the call for ''discussions''...that end up with emotional hemophiliacs like you mushroom clouding lol
There are individuals, churches, organizations, advocacy groups etc on the ground in the community working everyday to stop the violence and make change in our community. You are not from this community so you have no idea. You sound ignorant as ****!
There are individuals, churches, organizations, advocacy groups etc on the ground in the community working everyday to stop the violence and make change in our community. You are not from this community so you have no idea. You sound ignorant as ****!
When are cities like Chicago or Philly for example going to see the payoffs from these individuals, churches, organizations or advocacy groups?
The shift is going towards these same groups/people you describe as $$ is moved from police budgets to community violence interrupters since they have the solutions even though there hasn't been much, if any, results.
These advocacy and organization groups as well as these ''individuals'' are paid and funding will increase as they step-in to take over police dept roles.
Here's a great idea: don't call the neo-nazi white supremacist police departments anymore. Call your local community organizer or advocacy group.
Interesting to note that you didn't mention the key role: parents.
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