East Oakley (Cincinnati, Norwood, Kenwood: apartments, lofts, condos)

[Wilson513]

I had a little time today to wander around at the east end of Oakley. Too bad I did not have my camera.

As everyone familiar with Oakley knows the area adjacent to the railroad tracks has always been a downtrodden area. First, there are the tracks. Lots of them. And there were lots of trains. So many that the only passenger station in Cincinnati other than the Union Terminal was in Oakley. The station is still there, but the passenger trains are gone. (No one wants to take a train anymore ).

The street next to the trains is Brazee which sort of runs into the station and then becomes Enyart and runs along the tracks. Tracks on one side, metal buildings on the other. The houses on Brazee have always been junky.

Guess what? At the corner of Brazee and Enyart is a brand new arts center. A recycled factory that has been all renovated and serves as home for a bunch of artists a la Pendleton Art Center.

Here's a link:

Brazee Street Studios

CURRENT STUDIO ARTISTS - Brazee Street Studios

And, the junky houses on Brazee? A couple popped up painted like the Columbia Tusculum Victorian thing. You know, purple and pink and all. And, some of those metal factory buildings look like they are getting arts tenants.

Lots of opportunities there although not in the $4000 per house price range. I think I'd try to buy one of those metal buildings and do something.

[t45209]

As soon as January you might see most of those industrial buildings on the other side of the tracks start coming down for a new mixed use development. Movie theater, high end apartments, office, retail/restaurant are in the works.

[jjakucyk]

The Oakley train station is just one of dozens of suburban stations that used to exist, but were mostly killed by the agreement of the railroads to shift ALL passenger operations to Union Terminal, including commuter trains. Since Union Terminal is useless for commuting, it basically killed the commuter trains. There were *nine* stations in Norwood alone, two in Madisonville, four in Pleasant Ridge, three in Hartwell, two in Carthage, two in Elmwood Place, three in St. Bernard, one in Bond Hill, two in Winton Place, five in Northside and South Cumminsville, about a half dozen east and west of downtown along the river, among a few other random stations. Long distance trains stopped in Norwood, Winton Place, and a handful of other suburban stations into the late 1960s. Learn your history.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by t45209

As soon as January you might see most of those industrial buildings on the other side of the tracks start coming down for a new mixed use development. Movie theater, high end apartments, office, retail/restaurant are in the works.

That project behind Target and Sams where the old Milicron buildings are has been in the works for a long while. Is there any news on it? I'd really like to see it go but it seems to have had some false starts.

The aluminum distribution building on Enyart is closed but the guy that owns it seems to be letting it sit and he has more money than a person needs to so it may just sit.

[jjakucyk]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

That project behind Target and Sams where the old Milicron buildings are has been in the works for a long while. Is there any news on it? I'd really like to see it go but it seems to have had some false starts.

I thought it was dead, and it looks like the last iteration of the project has fallen through, but apparently it's still in play.

Oakley council supports development proposal | cincinnati.com | CommunityPress.com

I fear though that it's going to get further scaled back "because of the economy" to the point that it's going to become another crappy suburban office park/big box development like the rest of the site or the stuff around Madison and Redbank.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

That project behind Target and Sams where the old Milicron buildings are has been in the works for a long while. Is there any news on it? I'd really like to see it go but it seems to have had some false starts.

The aluminum distribution building on Enyart is closed but the guy that owns it seems to be letting it sit and he has more money than a person needs to so it may just sit.

The old "Millworks" project that you have been hearing about for years is dead...a victim of being too expensive and overly ambitious. Vandercar Holdings, which developed the Center of Cincinnati (Target, Meijer, Sam's) has collected private investment dollars (imagine that in these times) and could be closing on about 74 acres and 1.6 million square feet of obsolete factory buildings any day now. The project proposed is less intense than the orginal plan, but Vandercar admits one its challenges with this project is that it suffers from tenant fatigie...likely tentants have been hearing about this so long, that they are in a believe it when they see it mode.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by t45209

The old "Millworks" project that you have been hearing about for years is dead...a victim of being too expensive and overly ambitious. Vandercar Holdings, which developed the Center of Cincinnati (Target, Meijer, Sam's) has collected private investment dollars (imagine that in these times) and could be closing on about 74 acres and 1.6 million square feet of obsolete factory buildings any day now. The project proposed is less intense than the orginal plan, but Vandercar admits one its challenges with this project is that it suffers from tenant fatigie...likely tentants have been hearing about this so long, that they are in a believe it when they see it mode.

They have quite a task with that. Are they going to tear it all down and put a new shopping center or renovate some of those Milicron Buildings? The Milicron buildings would make awesome residential lofts. And it is perfectly located for all directions but the market is so depressed for condos right now I am sure no one would try it.

And, the retailers have a challenge in that you have Sam's, Target and Meijer right there and well established although I think I would shop anywhere not to set foot inside that Sams store again. Run by morons.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

They have quite a task with that. Are they going to tear it all down and put a new shopping center or renovate some of those Milicron Buildings? The Milicron buildings would make awesome residential lofts. And it is perfectly located for all directions but the market is so depressed for condos right now I am sure no one would try it.

And, the retailers have a challenge in that you have Sam's, Target and Meijer right there and well established although I think I would shop anywhere not to set foot inside that Sams store again. Run by morons.

Good question. They are clearing the site and starting from scratch (the old plan wanted to reuse some of the buildings). Many in Oakley and the city see this as a truly unique opportunity because this plan includes remediation of all of the enviromental issues (one of the reasons that the timing is so critical is that there are state and federal dollars available for the clean-up). I've heard differing opinions on how dirty the site is, but it stands to reason that an area that was heavy industrial for the better part of a century is going to have some issues. When you think about all of that, even if nothing else is ever built by this developer, if they just get as far as clearing the site and doing the environmental work the neighborhood is miles ahead.

The developer has also indicated that after the dirty stuff is removed from the site, most of what is left will be recycled for use on the project...all the old concrete and masonry will be broken up and reused. Apparently some of those factory floors are 8ft thick!

Condos to my knowledge are not part of the plan, but I've been told that they have discovered an old tunnel under the tracks, and some of the apartment developers want to reopen it and use it as a feature for pedestrian access to the Oakley business district.

They are targeting a different niche of retailers...not as upscale as what you find at Rookwood or Kenwood, and not as big of a footprint as the stores you listed. By the way, one of the selling points that's being put out there for potential retailers...all of the stores that you mentioned...the Sam's, Target, Meijer, and even the Circuit City that closed...are all NUMBER 1 in their region or very close to it. You might not like the way Sam's is run, but apparently the people around here like to spend their money there.

All that said, I think there is considerable concern about another "big box" development. Vandercar, as you can see from Center of CIncinnati, does not put a whole lot of extras and design features into a project that cost money and are expensive to maintain. Whether or not the city is going to be able to exercise much control over the appearance of the development is a huge question mark and could be unfortunate.

[kjbrill]

When you speak of 8' thick floors, your are not speaking of the floors themselves but the foundations installed to support machines. Therefore it is a patchwork layout. I would hope they would dig all of the original factory floor up to remove not only these foundations but the myriad of other old and obsolete utilities running around them. Having worked in and also been around many such factory buildings around the country, the best thing which can happen is level the whole works, remove the irritants, and start over with new construction.

[progmac]

i'm excited about this development possibility -- HOWEVER, do we really need more retail / commercial space? even the nicer neighborhoods in cincinnati have commercial vacancy issues. i'd hate to cannibalize existing space. i would think that a business has their choice of good locations as it is.