East Oakley (Cincinnati, Findlay, Washington: loft, house, tenants)

[jjakucyk]

Indeed, it sounds like it's turning into just what I said it was before as the mixed uses are gradually stripped out. Commercial property values have plummeted over the last few years, and we're still hugely overbuilt with commercial space. If I recall the USA has twice as much retail square footage per person than the next highest first world country, and something like 6 times the amount of most developed nations. Retail square footage doubled over the last 10 years while sales grew only about 14%. That's horrific.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by jjakucyk

Indeed, it sounds like it's turning into just what I said it was before as the mixed uses are gradually stripped out. Commercial property values have plummeted over the last few years, and we're still hugely overbuilt with commercial space. If I recall the USA has twice as much retail square footage per person than the next highest first world country, and something like 6 times the amount of most developed nations. Retail square footage doubled over the last 10 years while sales grew only about 14%. That's horrific.

I amaze myself when I agree and even make comments about having too-much mixed use. In planning circles, mixed-use development was supposed to be like the second coming of Christ. But all I see now are empty storefronts. I think i'm becoming too cynical!

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by progmac

I amaze myself when I agree and even make comments about having too-much mixed use. In planning circles, mixed-use development was supposed to be like the second coming of Christ. But all I see now are empty storefronts. I think i'm becoming too cynical!

Yeah, just like there was a time in planning circles when "urban renewal" was going to fix all kinds of problems, too. It turned out to actually be "urban removal." Planning is like a lot of other things, fads come and go and there are no one-size-fits-all solutions.

[Wilson513]

The "build it and they will come" approach just doesn't really work. People come, then things get built. An exception to that is when the government subsidizes housing or commercial space to the point where it is irresistible. An example of that is Gateway. The cost of those condos is about 30% higher than the selling price instead of 30% below the selling price due to government subsidy. So, Gateway is a big bargain, really.

On the other end of the spectrum we have City Center West where they built 25 storefronts on the "build it and they will come" but without much actual subsidy. Guess what? They are all vacant.

In Oakley, everyone wants to be there. East Oakley is an opportunity. It will be done before many of these other projects gets off the ground. Mt. Adams was like that. When I lived there in the 60's before any renovation was underway, people were inventing bootleg apartments to accommodate the demand. No wonder it was successful.

[Chemistry_Guy]

I think Norwood may come out as a big winner as Oakley (although I think of the part you are describing as north or even northwest Oakley) develops. Norwood is being bracketed on all sides with positive development. To the southwest, Xavier University continues to expand, and the associated business and demand for student housing is really building up the area. Ten years ago, the Norwood/Oakley border was a fairly depressing place. Now, it is a highly coveted area for buying and renting. To the north, the area bordering Pleasant Ridge is nicer than it was five years ago. The Indian Mound area is actually somewhat yuppified. The only area that has declined is the region to the north along Carthage. All the city needs is some industry to provide a tax base for better schools so that it can retain some of the young people that are buying houses there.

[jjakucyk]

I dunno, Norwood seems to be in a fairly precarious place as far as I can tell. Yes the northeast side is quite nice, but it seems like most of what's going on in Norwood is demolition and nothing else. The lot near Rookwood Pavillion is still sitting empty, and Xavier seems intent on demolishing the whole southwest side of the city. It's frightening to see the vast open expanse of dirt along Montgomery Road. While they're making the core campus pretty nice, it's being surrounded by massive parking lots at the expense of the rest of the community. The development north of the Lateral is mostly empty, and even if fully built-out is very small as it's just a suburban office park really. These new commercial developments are so diminished (in jobs and taxes) compared to the industrial uses they replace that it really makes me worry.

It's also interesting to note just how disconnected Norwood is from the Center Cincinnati development. There's really no westward connection over I-71 at all, unless you want to walk across the railroad bridges. To get from Center Cincinnati to the old US Playing Card factory area, you either have to go Vandecar/Madison/Appleton/Robertson, or to Ridge/Highland/Forest. Ouch.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

I think Norwood may come out as a big winner as Oakley (although I think of the part you are describing as north or even northwest Oakley) .

Wilson was correct in the original thread title of referring to "east." He was talking about the eastern end of the Oakley business district along Madison Rd. The two poles of the district have long been defined by the east-west axis of Madison.

On the other hand, the thread has drifted a bit to talk about the Oakley North area as defined in the Oakley North Redevelopment Plan, which was drafted a decade ago in conjunction with the Center of Cincinnati development.

[Wilson513]

I'd like to see some artists' loft space on Enyart like they started with at Pendleton. In some cities where they have started these art colonies, the artists bootleg their studios to use as apartments also. Pendleton put a veto on that early on. But there are several medium sized industrial spaces along Enyart. One of my buddies owns the furthest one at Verne, but that is about 4 blocks from the new arts center down Enyart.

I really wish I had taken some photos over there.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

That project behind Target and Sams where the old Milicron buildings are has been in the works for a long while. Is there any news on it? I'd really like to see it go but it seems to have had some false starts.

I haven't heard anything on any plans. At least nothing recently. (Some time ago, I was told that Jungle Jim's owner wanted to turn the building into a second store. But only if the Ridge Ave./OH 562 mess was fixed and if he were released from liability from past pollution. Now that he's building out in Claremont County, I'm sure that's off the drawing board. I DO know that I'd like the intersection of Marburg & Ibsen to stay as sleepy as it is now; right turns onto Ibsen sure are a lot easier...

[goyguy]

There are only so many artists to go around, and it doesn't appear to me that there's any huge pent-up demand for loft space in Cincinnati. OTR sputters erratically and uncertainly forward. Northside comes across as more of a hipster haven than a home for many actual artists and artisans. "Colonies" in Brighton and Camp Washington flicker on the radar at best. The West End isn't exactly taking off in this regard either. And there seem to be a lot of living spaces of this type downtown that're begging for tenants lately. So, 'twould seem that any new buildings housing loft-style spaces wouldn't fare much better in terms of occupancy than yet another big-box store "collection."