Calling All Preterists and Futurist - #1(Matt.10:23)

[Romulus0]

Hi sciotamicks,

Do you see Gog/Magog in Revelation and Ezekiel as the same event? I kinda get the idea that you don't but I could be wrong.

I see Ezekiel war and Gog/Magog as different events.

The battle of Armageddon / battle of Gog & Magog in Ezekiel is the final judgment upon apostate Israel and the triumph of Jesus Christ & his Church. None other. Many preterist fail in this indentification when applying it to the Romans. Revelation is covenantal, and only a fraction of it has to do with the Romans, and most of it has to do with Old Covenant Israel.

I do agree that Revelation is Covenantal and the Gog/Magog of Revelation can be applied to spiritual war against Christianity through the armies of satan. It does not necessarily need to apply to the Roman Armies. This is a war against satan and his defeat is what is important here.

When compared to the events of Ezekiel 38-39, the fate of the Roman armies does not parallel Ezekiel’s prophecies regarding Gog and Magog. In both the book of Revelation and Ezekiel, the armies of Gog and Magog are destroyed and Magog is burned with fire. To put it simply, this does not happen to the Roman Armies that attacked Israel in 67-70 AD.

True, but I am curious to know if you see the Gog/Magog of Ezekiel as being fulfilled in Revelation or in a different event? I believe Gog/Magog in Ezekiel's war as being fulfilled in the war of Esther between the Jews and Haman but we can discuss this on a later thread if you wish.

Rememeber, Israel is Mystery Babylon, the Beast from the Earth, and the Little Horn, all identified with the Ten Horned, Seven Headed Beast.
Revelation is covenantal (MAIN picture is the destroying of old Jerusalem and creating the NEW one) but the earthy elements WERE ALWAYS important, see the role of Assyria, Babylon, Medes, Egypt in the Old Testament, and Rome in the New Testament.

Very true. God always used heathan armies in His judgement against nations. Medes/Persians against Babylon, Babylon against Israel etc.

[Romulus0]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

I agree. It is interesting for futurists to be assured of their salvation when if the second coming has not occurred then they really are just hoping for salvation. It is pretty clear in scripture that the second coming begins the New Covenant.

You hit the nail on the head. The completion of Salvation at the second appearing I believe to be the beginning of the New Covenant. If we simply go the steps in Hebrews we can see that certain things still needed to be accomplished before the New Covenant took effect such as:

Hebrews 9

6When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing.


The way into the most holy place or God's presence was not made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. There was only one tabernacle in the 1st century.....the temple in Jerusalem. This was the last sign of the Old Covenant. With it's destruction was a sign to humanity that God no longer dwelled in houses of stone but within His people. This was the promise given to Israel. It is now open to all believers in Christ.

God Bless.

[sciotamicks]

Romulus,

The key to understanding this specific prophecy is not really Gog, but Magog.
Here is a study a friend of mine from Sovereign Grace Preterism let me be privvy to reading, and although it takes a little more focus than usual, you will begin to see the relevance as to the word Magog in question.

Is Gog a Code Word? (http://www.metrocast.net/~moza/atbash.htm - broken link)

However, I would like to be priviledge to your study on that specific war in Esther, as I have read some excerpts on it before.