The Blessed Hope of the Believers (paradise, punishment, prayers, sin)

[Gideon7620]

Originally Posted by jeapostle

Babylon is the Harlot, representing apostate Israel, and her continual spiritual adultery in worshipping idols and breaking covenant. Babylon is first century Jerusalem, the Great city, where our Lord was crucified (Rev.11:8). Babylon (Jerusalem) was judged and burned with fire during the Jewish War (A.D. 70). The New Jerusalem (the Church) was the New Covenant Bride (New Covenant Israel) that replaces the harlot (Old Covenant, Apostate Israel). This is one of the themes of Revelation: the judgment of the Harlot and the marriage of the new bride, all FIRST CENTURY EVENTS.

Babylon clearly is a nation as described earlier, a nation which commits monetary fornication with all the kings of the earth. It is the most diverse nation, culturally and racially in the world. It is a nation steeped in the occult. We also see that Babylon has the most prosperous economy in the world. Scripture further tells us that she has the world's largest seaports, and imports more goods than any nation in the world. She has more technology than any nation in the world; this nation makes her nests in the heavens and mounts up to the heavens in space travel. She is the disseminator of all filth, greed and fornication in the world. She has a Babylonian goddess that represents her identity, Ishtar, the goddess of freedom and liberty for all immigrants. She is filled with warehouses, granaries, abundance of fruits, precious metals and stones, and every excess imaginable. Babylon is the nation that has the most powerful military in the world. Israel is not Babylon, but is rather God chosen tribe, Klan and nation. This cup better fits America, whom has filled the earth with excess and filth. We see Hollywood is where some of it starts; the pornography, excess, and popular culture in the world all originates in America, primarily Hollywood and New York. New York City is the capital of the world, and recognized as such by the entire world. America is home to all the modern day Babylonian towers, skyscrapers (which will all come down on The Day of the Lord). Imagine that site. All high towers will be brought down. Israel is not Babylon, but rather God's chosen nation. God will not destroy Israel as described in Revelation 18 and 19; this wrath is set aside for the nation that has corrupted the earth, America. Instead of God destroying Israel he brings deliverance to her as described clearly in the Old and New Testaments. He gathers the nations and the Beast against her at the end of the Great Tribulation in order to prepare these nations for the Great wine press of God's wrath. The end results will be the destruction of all the nations that oppose God at the Valley of Jehosephat, in Israel. Babylon is destroyed shortly before this event, and that clearly is not Israel. The moon, sun, are darkened and the stars begin to fall when Babylon is destroyed as seen clearly in the Old and New testaments. Then, the Day of the Lord hits like a bolt of lightning; he arrives to pour his wrath on the nations and deliver his elect; Israel and the church, which has been grafted into the house of Israel. We must be cautious in attempting to curse Israel; it is unhealthy for us. Babylon is a young cub, born of the lion, England, the land of the Chaldeans. This clearly does not fit Israel by any means.

The modern day spiritual harlot can be described as most likely being the Roman Catholic Church, and the American Protestant Church, whom have followed doctrines of demons, brought on by Darby, Scofield, and the illuminists whom financed these two men and all the churches whom worship their vain heresies. The primary heresy is the pretribulational rapture, whch places the worshipers of this doctrine in a wrathful position with God. Whom if they continue as such until the Day of God's strong delusion, will remain in Darkness, until The Day of the Lord, when His wrath shall arrive to judge those whom had pleasure in unrighteousness or error concerning the timing of the Lord's return.


Blessed are they that bless Israel and cursed are they that curse it. Shall the braches curse the tree from whence they came; God forbid? Take caution in attempting to curse Israel; lest it be upon they that curse. The church clearly was born from Israel's fall from grace; it will be the church's responsibility to bring the broken branches back to the family tree when the GT arrives.





Genesis

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Romans

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,

Thank God we have court records and Scofield's ex-wife's testimony to demonstrate the kind of a man he was. Most importantly, we have scriptures to teach us correct doctrine from incorrect doctrine. Sadly, many are trapped in the heretical errors Darby and Scofield spread across this nation, when churches were young, weak, and venerable. The churches became trapped in vain traditions of men. One cannot deny historical facts. Fundamentalists, in their foolish prides still worship these men in spite of doctrinal truths, and historical facts. Is it any wonder God has said, "10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved?

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." Following error concerning the timing of the second coming of Christ is no light thing. Those whom follow it willfully are in great danger of facing God's wrath. God takes it very seriously; so seriously that he says those whom have pleasure in unrighteousness or in error concerning this timing may be caught in darkness. Once God sends his strong delusion, it will be too late to repent of the error. Think twice and learn some facts before you vehemently protect this heretical doctrine of deceit, created by wicked men. Understand, I am not saying people whom have been taught this doctrine are in danger of God's wrath. What I am saying is those whom teach it; protect it vehemently as it being God's word and truth, and those whom worship men that proclaim this loudly are in danger. Why are they in danger? They are in danger, because they teach something to the masses that is clearly heresy and not found in God's word; yet, they proclaim it as being God's word.

When taking all this into consideration, we must remember what the scripture say concerning discernment of God's word. The carnal man cannot know the things of God; it is evident that Darby and Scofield were carnal by nature; their interpretations of the Lord's second coming are carnal. While scripture tells us we must suffer tribulation until the last day, The Day of the Lord, they tell us Jesus is going to fly us away in a secret rapture seen nowhere in scripture. While the scriptures tell us to build our faith in tribulations, troubles and persecutions, they tell us to have faith in a false doctrine not seen in scripture, which is suppose to deliver us from the things that build our faith; that being trials, tribulations troubles, and persecution. They are so obviously dead wrong, they could not be any more wrong. It is evident; they have doctrines of demons which go contrary to God's words. These demonic doctrines are diametrcally oposed to God's word.


10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

It is high time so called Christians begin to search for truth; there may not be much time to find it. We had better learn the truths in God's words and quit listening to these traditional fables that were created by confused men.
We can not play footsy with doctrinal errors. I find it amazing that many pre-tribulationist think we can all get along with differences in doctrine; We can't: it is impossible.


17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Phillipians 3
16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


Scofield: The Man Behind The Myth

[Gideon7620]

Originally Posted by jeapostle

Babylon is the Harlot, representing apostate Israel, and her continual spiritual adultery in worshipping idols and breaking covenant. Babylon is first century Jerusalem, the Great city, where our Lord was crucified (Rev.11:8). Babylon (Jerusalem) was judged and burned with fire during the Jewish War (A.D. 70). The New Jerusalem (the Church) was the New Covenant Bride (New Covenant Israel) that replaces the harlot (Old Covenant, Apostate Israel). This is one of the themes of Revelation: the judgment of the Harlot and the marriage of the new bride, all FIRST CENTURY EVENTS.

I know noone likes to here America is Babylon, but the evidence is irrefutable. Israel does not have the largest seaports in the world. Nor is Israel the center of World Trade. Nor is it the home of the World Trade Towers, the UN Security Coucil, CFR, Builderburg, Skull and Bones, Bohemia Grove, or the largest idol ever built in human history, Ishtar or Lady Liberty, the goddess of fertility, freedom, and liberty for all immigrants. Israel is not going to be destroyed by God, but rather Babylon will be. Israel will be delivered shortly after Babylon's destruction. She will be delivered in the Valley of Jehosephat. Even the Jews know this to be scripturally accurate. To say Israel is Babylon hints to an antisemetic spirit towards God's Chose people. Israel may have found herself in Babylon and impressioned and influenced by its culture throughout the ages as a result of her rebellion towards God., but she by no means is Babylon. Babylon is the oposite of Isreal. Besides who can say they have never rebelled against God. Since Israel has been given much by God, she finds herself more accountable to God also. I would never envy that.

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,

nowhere does Christ say that Mathew 24, 13 etc are only meant for Israel. We see the same events in Revelation 6 and 7 with the opening of the seals. We all know irrefutably, undeniably, without a doubt that Revelation was written to the churches as they are warned in not having their candlesticks removed. In Revelation 6 and 7 we see a worldwide campaign of the slaughter of the church, and Israel, the saints. There is no more Israel, as they are now grafted back into the body, the family tree, by the church. Take note to the great multitudes from evey nation, tongue, and kindred whom are before the throne of the God that now rules on earth. Christ begins to rule after the seventh trumpet is sounded (Rev11) and after the sixth seal is broken (Rev 6). Now we see the saints whom came out the Great Tribulation from every tongue, tribe, nation, and kindred, the largest group of martyrs ever ruling with Christ on earth. Ones head has to be filled with rocks if they can not see this is not Israel alone, but rather the entire body of believers. For such we see in Revelation 6 after the sixth seal is broken, the sun and moon darkening and the stars falling, Jesus is coming to rule. Then we see the kings and mighty men saying to the rocks fall on us and hide us from Him whom sits on the throne. THey know that God, Jesus is back to rule and reign on earth. He is also back to Judge the kings whom killed his saints for not worshipping the beast. There is no singularity of Israel during the tribulation. As a matter of fact, it apears the church is dominating the scene during the Great Tribulation. Mathew 24, John 21, Rev 11, 19, 20, Dan 7, Dan 8, II Thes 2, I Thes 4, I Thes 5, and Mark 13 etc. contain the same events we see here in Revelation 6 and 7. Revelation 6 and 7 just point out other details we do not see in Mathew 24 as the kings saying to the rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:" So the wrath of the Lamb comes at the end of the Great Tribulation as does the rapture or gathering of the saints to Christ. Clearly the wrath of God comes at the end of the Great Tribulation and not during. Do not confuse Satan's wrath which occurs during the Great Tribualtion with God's which comes after. Do not misquote or twist scriptures into saying that Jesus comes before the tribulation. It is impossible to do so; you seem to rely on Darbyism, a false doctrine created by apostate, greedy men, whom created this doctrine for financial gain alone. It is a fairytale that has stretched truth disproportionately out of context, by cherry picking verses and misconstuing their context, meanings, and even their terminologies.

Revelation 6



9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 7


9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

[Gideon7620]

Now we can cover yet another set of verses that proves a post-tribulation return of Christ as well.


Revelation 6

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said, In order for one to understand the meanings of many prophecies we must have to consider the fact that scripture often speaks in metaphors. For instance we know that ancient Babylon was destroyed in the OT as seen in Isaiah and Jeremiah. Yet in the Old Testament we see that Babylon's destruction describes the destruction of Modern Babylon also. How do we know this? First of all we see the sun and moon being darkened and the stars falling in one depiction. We also see The Day of the Lord occurring with the destruction of Babylon. Though this was recorded in the Old Testament, we know neither of these events has occurred yet. The conclusion is it speaks of Modern Babylon also as Babylon is a mystery or something secretive hidden until the time of the end also. For such we see scripture refering to Babylon as an ancient mystery. It is said the same ruling class of families have always ruled the earth, but have just moved from place to place.

The same senario is seen with the tribulation and antichrist also. We know we shall and have suffered tribulation throughout the church age. At the same token we know that the Great Tribulation does not come until the last 3.5 years of time in the world as we know it. The end of the Great Tribulation marks the coming of Christ, the destruction of Modern Babylon, the resurrection of the saints, God's wrath on the wicked etc. Many antichrists have come, but "the antichrist has not come yet." The antichrist is an individual possessed by Satan himself during the GT, while antichrists are many individuals possessed by devils or demons.

Common sense should tell everyone Jesus has not come, nor has the Great tribulation arrived. The GT's end brings the coming of Christ, the destruction of Modern Babylon, the resurrection of the saints, and millenial kingdom will all culminate together at the end of the Great Tribulation. We obviously have not arrived there yet.

[Gideon7620]

[SIZE=4]First and most important of all. Let's forget all the doctrines that have been passed down on to us by tradition; Let the Bible be our only Authority. Forget the doctrines of Men. As Romans 3:4 says "let God be found true, though every man be found a liar."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]The Church will go thru the entire Tribulation, but God will call some of the Saints home by martydom or nature causes. The church will remain on earth until the very end. Now those who get to die before the rapture and during the tribulation will be very blessed, they will go straight to Heaven. When the rapture happens, we will be caught up to the clouds and no further, to meet or "apentesis", Jesus. This is where the marriage supper of the lamb will be, in the clouds.Once we are brought to a state of Immortalization, we marry Christ and become one. Now we are ready for battle; we might be up there an hour or two enough time to get acquainted with The Lord Jesus. The point of our apentesis is to meet and greet the savior and escort him back to earth as such was the apentesis in Helenistic times. We will be prepared to fight the Armageddon War, which will be a war between the Immortal saints Under the Leadership of Jesus VS the mortal Armies of the antichrist, which will not last long. Then the 1000 yrs of peace will start. Here are verses which Strongly proves the Church will go thru the whole Tribulation, unless they die of course.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Notice that Revelation 12:11 says that they over came him by the Blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, this is a New Testament Church thing cause that is how the Christians overcome satan. Revelation 12:12 says that the great tribulation is the wrath of satan, not the wrath of God. Revelation 12:13 says the woman flees unto the wilderness. this means that the woman will flee from the dragon. so in other words the beast does not control the whole entire earth or the woman could not flee. Revelation 12:14 says that the great Tribulation last for a time and times and half a time which = 3 1/2 years. Revelation 12:17 the dragon makes war (death happens in war) with those who have the testimony of Jesus means saints will be killed during this time of Revelation 12:14 time times and half of time 3 1/2 years.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Believe tells us that some of the church will be permitted to die and go straight to Heaven. which will be a blessing compared to the alternative of going thru more of the tribulation. but then Daniel says of the Great Tribulation, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action. Daniel 11:32. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]REVELATION 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them." (Yes we are over half way through the Book of Revelation, and the word of God says Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. meaning that the Holy Spirit is here cause people are still dying in the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Over 19 More verses Proving a Post Tribulation Rapture[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](1.) Daniel 7:25, (2.) Daniel 8:24, (3.) Daniel 11:32-33, (4.) Daniel 12:7 (5.) Matthew 24:21-31,(6.) Matthew 24:21-31, (7.) Mark 13:20-22, (8.) Mark 13:24-27, (9.) 1st Thessalonians 5:1-4, (10.) 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-4, (11.) Revelation 6:9-11 (12.) Revelation 7:13-15, (13.) Revelation 12:9,11,12,17, (14.) Revelation 13:7, (15.) Revelation 13:7-9, (16.) Revelation 13:9-10, (17.) Revelation 14:7 (18.) Revelation 14:9,12,13 (19.) Revelation 20:4-6, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](1.) Daniel 7:25[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]25 'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the SAINTS of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be GIVEN UNTO HIS HAND for a time, times, and half a time[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](2.) Daniel 8:24-26[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]24 "[/SIZE][SIZE=4]His power will be mighty, but not by his own power,
And he will destroy to an extraordinary degree
And prosper and perform his will;
HE WILL DESTROY mighty men and THE HOLY PEOPLE.
25 "And through his shrewdness
He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence;
And he will magnify himself in his heart,
And he will destroy many while they are at ease.
HE WILL EVEN OPPOSE THE PRINCE OF PRINCES,
[/SIZE][SIZE=4]But he will be broken without human agency.
26 "The vision of the evenings and mornings
Which has been told is true;
But keep the vision secret,
For it pertains [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](3.) Daniel 11:32-33[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]32 "By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEIR GOD will display strength and take action. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]33 "THOSE WHO HAVE INSIGHT among the people WILL GIVE UNDERSTANDING to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](4.) Daniel 12:7
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
[/SIZE][SIZE=4](5.) Matthew 24:21-25[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]21 "For THEN there will be a GREAT TRIBULATION, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; BUT FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT but for the sake of the elect THOSE DAYS will be cut short. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](6.) Matthew 24:29-31
[SIZE=4]29 IMMEDIATELY AFTER the TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]30 And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and THEN shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER together HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=4](7.) Mark 13:20-22
[SIZE=4]20 "Unless the Lord had shortened THOSE DAYS, no life would have been saved; but FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT, whom He chose, He shortened the days. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]21 "And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ'; or, 'Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](8.) Mark 13:24-27[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]27 "And THEN He will send forth the angels, and will GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from the farthest end of the EARTH to the farthest end of heaven. [/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=4](9.) 1st Thessalonians 5:1-4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]4 But YE, brethren, ARE NOT IN DARKNESS, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](10.) 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-4[/SIZE][SIZE=4]

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
What day are they talk about in verse 3 well it is that day if verse 1. Also the day described in verse 4 is the Abomination of desolation. which happens on the very first day of the Great Tribulation.

Revelation 6:9-11[/SIZE] [SIZE=4][SIZE=3][SIZE=4]9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:[/SIZE] [/SIZE]


10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](12.) Revelation 7:13-15[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who COME OUT OF the GREAT TRIBULATION, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](13.) Revelation 12:9,11,12,17
[SIZE=4]9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]11 "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]12 "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]17 So the DRAGON was enraged with the woman, and WENT OFF TO MAKE WAR with the rest of her children, WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and HOLD THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS. [/SIZE]
(14.) Revelation 13:7
7 It was ALSO GIVEN TO HIM TO MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS AND TO OVERCOME THEM, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
(15.) Revelation 13:7-9
[SIZE=4]5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]7 It was ALSO GIVEN TO HIM TO MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS AND TO OVERCOME THEM, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](16.) Revelation 13:9-10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed HERE IS THE PERSEVERANCE AND THE FAITH OF THE SAINTS. [/SIZE]
(17.) Revelation 14:7
[SIZE=4]7 and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters." (Why would This be commanded even now? because it is still possible to obey and there will be some who wil take heed.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4](18.) Revelation 14:9,12,13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, (there is still people who will repent even now thus they will not take the mark)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (notice that the underlined word is not "all" or "everyone" etc.etc.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]12 HERE IS THE PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS Here is the perseverance of the saints WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THEIR FAITH IN JESUS. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who DIE IN THE LORD FROM NOW ON!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][SIZE=4](19.) Revelation 20:4-6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those WHO HAD NOT WORSHIPED THE BEAST or his image, and HAD NOT RECIEVED THE MARK ON THEIR FOREHEAD AND ON THEIR HAND; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]5 The REST OF THE DEAD did NOT come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]6 BLESSED and holy IS THE ONE who has a part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Revelation 11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[jeapostle]

Originally Posted by Gideon7620

I know noone likes to here America is Babylon, but the evidence is irrefutable. Israel does not have the largest seaports in the world. Nor is Israel the center of World Trade. Nor is it the home of the World Trade Towers, the UN Security Coucil, CFR, Builderburg, Skull and Bones, Bohemia Grove, or the largest idol ever built in human history, Ishtar or Lady Liberty, the goddess of fertility, freedom, and liberty for all immigrants. Israel is not going to be destroyed by God, but rather Babylon will be. Israel will be delivered shortly after Babylon's destruction. She will be delivered in the Valley of Jehosephat. Even the Jews know this to be scripturally accurate. To say Israel is Babylon hints to an antisemetic spirit towards God's Chose people. Israel may have found herself in Babylon and impressioned and influenced by its culture throughout the ages as a result of her rebellion towards God., but she by no means is Babylon. Babylon is the oposite of Isreal. Besides who can say they have never rebelled against God. Since Israel has been given much by God, she finds herself more accountable to God also. I would never envy that.

America is not Babylon. Babylon is the Great city where our Lord was Crucified (Rev.11:98, Rev.17:18)). Jesus was not Crucified in America but in first century Jerusalem Please stay with the WORD not Scull and Bones and Ishtar

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by jeapostle

America is not Babylon. Babylon is the Great city where our Lord was Crucified (Rev.11:98, Rev.17:18)). Jesus was not Crucified in America but in first century Jerusalem Please stay with the WORD not Scull and Bones and Ishtar

And pray tell me what Bible you read from? Rev 11:8-9 describe this spiritual Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt. One a city, another a country. . Where is Babylon mentioned?

And Rev 17:18 is speaking about the false Jerusalem,,,the harlot church which claims to be something they are not. Hense, the wh-o-re and not the virgin. You know,,,the FALSE teachers speaking lies,,yea,,anti-christs.

[Gideon7620]

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

And pray tell me what Bible you read from? Rev 11:8-9 describe this spiritual Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt. One a city, another a country. . Where is Babylon mentioned?

And Rev 17:18 is speaking about the false Jerusalem,,,the harlot church which claims to be something they are not. Hense, the wh-o-re and not the virgin. You know,,,the FALSE teachers speaking lies,,yea,,anti-christs.

Gideon said, Revelation 11 has only 19 verses; I am not sure what Bible you are reading, but it is obviously not the one I read. This makes all the differences. Time will reveal the real Identity of Babylon, America, but certainly, Israel is not Babylon. Israel is God's chosen tribe, klan, and nation.

Israel has fallen from Grace as all have from time to time, but to say she is Babylon is saying that all the judgemental prophecies God has predestined for Babylon will be set against Israel; this is blasphemous and seems to hold an antisemtic twange to it. Anyone with a morsal of any spirituality knows Israel is God's chosen people and becomes the focus of God to bring her to repentence in the final 3.5 years of human history, by means of the churches testimony of Jesus Christ. Babylon will not be blessed but judged and cursed by God's wrath soon to come on her. Ameica fits the description of Modern Babylon to the tee; there is no denying this. Think of any prophecy concerning Modern Babylon and it equates to America's character, exactly. Many as Americans just do not like to think this. Because America is supposed to be a democracy, but it is not. It is a land of the corporations, for the corportations, and by the corportations. No other Naiton has glorified herself as America and American culture. No other land has been so blatant about its corportions robbing the world and its citizens of their wealth. Who can deny this? None.