The Blessed Hope of the Believers (unpardonable, women, preach, exodus)

[Gideon7620]

Pre-tribulationists Obvious Errors in Translation of Words

Gideon said,
Beginning in verse 4 we see thilpis the Greek word for tribulation. It means an experience that tests one's endurance, patience and faith. The suffering God allows the church to go through is allowed by God to test them of their endurance, patience and faith. Paul glories or speaks proudly of the church of Thessalonica in all the other churches because he is admiring their faith which is demonstrated by their endurance in tribulations and persecutions. That is a precisely what verse 4 says.

Verse 5 tells us that God's allowance of these troubles (persecutions and tribulations) is a manifested token of God's righteous Judgment that shall come against the ungodly bringing this trouble, the persecution to the church. He further tells us that the endurance of this affliction is a manifestation of their salvation. In other words, since they can endure it; it is proof they are saved. In opposite retrospect, had they not endured, they obviously are not part of God's kingdom. Do not misunderstand these statements; what I am not saying is that this endurance of tribulation saves them, but rather it is proof they are saved. The unsaved simply will not endure. This becomes clearer in the following verses.

In verse 6 we see that God will recompense judgment on those that trouble the church. He will recompense tribulation on our persecutor. The timing of the recompense brought against our enemies is crucial to the post-tribulation fact. Further the time frame the church is to endure the tribulation is more proof of the post-tribulation fact as we will see.

In verse seven we see the opposite of what is taught by pre-tribulationists to be true. The rest from persecution does not occur until the Lord Jesus is revealed. Yet they, the pre-tribulationists claim it comes seven years earlier in a secret, hidden, nowhere mentioned in scripture rapture that flies them away. Now reading this by itself does not strike the meaning so strongly, until the word revealed is translated. The word revealed comes from the Greek word apokolypcia. The word, "Apocalypse," is the disclosure and "revelation of Christ when he appears in the fullness of his power". This is very obviously the word being used. It snuffs out the claim to a pre-tribulation return of Christ here. Yet, they claim it is here in II Thes 1. In other word, while the meanings of the words here tells us Jesus is making his disclosure and revelation of power with his apokolypcia here; the pre-tribulationists camps continue to falsely claim this is a secret mysterious coming no one knows about and that none will see. Here we see the same event about to occur in Revelation 11.



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15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


We see verses 8 and 9 telling us the same things also. There is absolutely nothing secret about Jesus coming back with angels in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those that trouble us until the time of his revelation; the vengeance is poured out in flaming fire on those that obeyed not the Gospel of his Word; who also know not God or simply are not his children. The most important thing to notice is the rest from the persecution and troubles does not occur until Jesus is revealed or until his apokolypcia,which occurs at the end of the GT. This debunks the pretribulation rapture entirely.

This is very obviously the wrath of God. God's wrath comes at the end of the GT and not during. The pretribulation camp makes a gross error in calling Satan's wrath which occurs during the tribulation, God's wrath, which occurs at the end of the GT. Satan and his minions persecuting the church does not constitute the wrath of God. God's wrath comes when Jesus is revealed, in flaming fire taking vengeance on the churches enemies, as depicted in verses 8 and 9.

These that trouble us until the end of the GT, shall be punishes with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and the Glory of his power. The Glory of this power is the power of the resurrection. While we receive rest in the resurrection of his likeness, they the wicked shall be punished in the Lake of fire. On that day Christ shall be glorified because we believed everything Paul wrote to us. We are glorified as we are transformed into his likeness on that day. It is that simple. Why do they complicate this so much. THe answer is they refuse to receive the love of the truth. They have pleasure in unrighteousness or they have pleasure in doctrinal errors. Some of these are not of us and time will reveal that.

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,

Now let's see more about the coming of Jesus, in the terminology. Remember we mentioned in II Thes 2 that his coming, or Parousia, meant his arrival. NOW Let’s cover another word to sort of wrap up II Thes 1 and 2. The other word is epiphany. We see the word coming in the Greek can also represent his epiphany or brilliant Shekinah, as the sun shines... This word epiphany is seen in the end of the chapter in verse 8.


1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming (parousia) or arrival of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him; this verse merely means his arrival while our gathering together unto him is the resurrection of the dead and translation of the living to meet the Lord in the air.

In verse 8 we see the word epiphany being used. What is says is that the brilliant Shekinah or sun like glow of Christ returning or of his coming (epiphany) will destroy Satan. This is the blazing fire we see in II Thes 1 that destroys the wicked one, and wicked ones whom follow Satan and his lies. In other words it is the same event being described with different details. God does this often throughout scripture. Pre-tribulationism has made a great error in calling the two descriptions of the obvious same event two separate events. So there is nothing secret or hidden with Jesus returning as in fire to destroy his enemies. That is a very powerful statement. We must remember our God is a consuming fire that hates evil, sin, and evil doers with a consuming passion. Deu 4:24 says, For the LORD thy God [is] a consuming fire, [even] a jealous God.

Here are both descriptions of the same event being describe with different details. Here we see angels also, while in II Thes 2 we are only told his fire like epiphany will destroy Satan.
The same event in II Thes 1
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming (epiphany).

Now we can continue to build the bridge that will also connect I Thes with II Thes to prove they are exactly the same event being described with different details of that single event. There are several words to do this, but we will focus on two or three especially. The last word we will bring up is "apentesis..." This is a very important word as we will see.

So far what we have learned is the epiphany, parousia, and the revelation or apokolypcia are all the same single event. It can be summarized as this: Christ's arival or Parousia, will be an out shining brilliance and fire or epiphany, that will destroy Satan and the evil ones, at his revelation or apokolypcia or on the day His wrath is poured on the wicked of mankind, at the end of the Great Tribulation. There is no dividing of the event, it is one single event in which we see all his attributes previously prophecied come to fruition, at his revelation, in which he returns with all his power and glorious splendor to glorify the saints and destroy the wicked.

[Gideon7620]

I would like to know, has this helped anyone to understand eschatology? I notice we have quite a few readers.

Gideon said,
IF so, read this: as it will be next on the agenda. Notice the main enphasis is on not being ignorant concerning the well being of the dead in Christ. Nothing, I repeat, nothing is mentioned of the timing of this event. Paul only answers the concern the saints had for the dead in Christ, their loved ones. Though there is proof that shows us he is coming down to earth, as we will see very clearly. There is proof this is the same and only second coming we have thus far looked at. There is no such thing as two second comings. That is as silly as saying there are two Jesus'.




13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,
The flop-ups pre-tribulationists make here are very obvious. The fact that few recognize this leads us to conclude, not many have studied the second coming. They have settled to be spoon fed lies. Adolph Hitler said, "If you tell someone a lie long enough, they will believe it to be true." This is precisely what Darbyism has accomplished in our churches. Very few pastors know of the truth concerning the post-tribulation return of Christ. They have chosen to take the easy way out by clinging to pre-tribulationism. Most pastors and missionaries would not dare say they believe post-tribulationism is true, as this would have them expelled from their Fundamentalists movements. They are counting on their retirements, so they settle for watered down, vain traditions of man, which God refers to as damnable heresies. If missionaries did this, claimed post-tribulationism as truth, they would be expelled from their mission boards. Now remember, Darby is the father of Fundamentalism, as so may Scofield be considered as one also. So in a sense, they are Darby, and Scofield worshipers. They have chosen to accept error without investigating truth. I would rather be at home typing truth, than to be on a mission field or in a church preaching error concerning the coming of Christ. Jesus does not come to take the church away from the horrors of Satan or before the tribulation begins; this conceptual thought we have proven goes against church history, tradition, and doctrine as recorded in God's Words. We have also noticed it is an escapist attitude that is seated deep in the fallen hearts of man, planted by Satan. He, Christ, God, comes after the workings of Satan, at the end of the Great Tribulation. That is why it is called the Great Tribulation. Throughout Revelation we see an exponential amount of saints being killed for their faith, and for not accepting the mark of the Beast in their right hands or foreheads. It is a time of purification for the church; where the trying of her faith, purges her as gold. The trials, tribulations, persecutions, and troubles she is to experience will build her faith greatly, as never seen before. As we viewed earlier these trouble will continue until the revelation or apokolypcia or our Lord, at the end of the GT. We see that God does not let us rest from tribulation until Jesus is revealed in fire, with His mighty angels, at the end of the GT. So sorry to break the news to you; we can expect to suffer until Jesus comes at the end of the GT. Ok, now we can go on to cover the next portion of this study, I Thessalonians 4:13-18.

6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, This is when the rest is realized, not seven years earlier in a secret, mysterious, hidden, no one knows about coming that is not found anywhere in scripture. It is realized seven years later, at the end of the GT, when Jesus is revealed in fire; there is nothing secret about that as we said earlier.


13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,
Now we can cover these two verses. Apparently either the church was inquisitive about the dead in Christ and what would happen to them when Jesus would return or Paul just wanted to inform us of what would happen. So the main emphasis is the dead in Christ returning with Christ when he comes back to earth. I would challenge anyone to show us a pre-tribulational rapture here. This is an impossible task, as it is not there, as the pre-tribulation camps vehemently claim it is. Now remember, there is a danger in claiming this error as seen in II Thes 2; it is dangerous to have pleasure in unrighteousness or in error concerning the second coming. Paul further tells us and comforts us to not have any concern for our dead loved ones in Christ. They are not as those that have no hope, as their hope is in Christ.

Verse 14 begins to bring all this together. Paul tells us, "Hey if you believe Jesus died and rose again, even so them that sleep in Jesus will God bring back with Him. Notice Paul says nothing about taking them away, but rather he tells us God the Son will bring them back with Himself. Wither so ever Jesus goes they are with Him. As he returns to earth, in order to establish his Kingship he brings all the dead saints back with him, from Adam to the last Martyr in Revelation. We see that clearly in Revelation 11, 19, 20 etc. Yet pre-tribulationist claim these words bring with Him, mean Jesus is going to fly them away. That is very inaccurate as we will see.


13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleeps in Jesus will God bring with him.

Notice the only ones Jesus brings anywhere are the dead not the living on earth. He brings them with himself from heaven so they can be resurrected from the dead. The word bring in the Greek is "ago"; it means to lead, carry, lead along, bring. So Jesus is bringing them not taking as pre-tribulationism claim falsely again. They further even claim he is bringing us all to heaven, the living saints on earth and the dead ones currently in Heaven. This is so inaccurate; it could not be more inaccurate.

Take note how Paul begins verse 14, with the death and resurrection of Christ. This is the pattern that the dead in Christ shall follow also. They return with Him, as he "Brings them with" in order for them to receive their dead bodies resurrected when Christ is glorified in His saints at his return. We will see that very clearly also.

Thus far Paul tells us not to worry about the dead in Christ; God, Christ will bring them with Him at his returns. We know since they come with Him they are in Heaven, and there is much scripture to back that. He reminds us of the power of the resurrection in Christ. We have also learned that pre-tribulationists misrepresent the word "bring" grossly, and present it in opposite fahion of its true meaning, with the word "'take away" instead, thus falsely claiming Jesus is to take them away to heaven. There is no taking anywhere in this chapter at all. Neither is there a secret hidden second coming of Jesus that occurs at the beginning of the Tribulation or anytime after the Ascention as they falsely proclaim loudly that Jesus could have returned anytime, unexpectedly after the Ascention. Now let's carry on to the next verses.

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,
This we are telling you by God's word and authority, the living saints present on earth, remaining until Jesus returns, will not prevent the dead saints in any way. Remember Paul told us of the death and resurrection of Christ; now he brings it to their personal level. We see Jesus descends with the voice ofthe Archangel, a Loud Shout, and the Trumpet of God, the last trumpet of revelation as Paul has previously given us the remainder of the details in other verses as these. John, Jesus, and many others have also given more detail of this single event. Remember, God gives us different details of the same event throughout scripture, by other scriptures and varying personalities to shed all the details he wanted us to realize about a single event.

Notice Jesus is descending down to earth. We are caught up to meet him at His descent. The scriptures read the Lord shall descend. There is zero indication here that Jesus comes secretly, without notice to steal the church away to heaven, in order for them to escape persecution. There is zero detail given of any ascent as pretibulationism falsely claims there is. It is evident that He proceeds in a downward motion, with a shout, the voice ofthe archangel, and the last trumpet of Revelation. This all occurs at the end ofthe GT, not seven years earlier as pre-tribulationists falsely proclaim, loudly.


50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,

We see the same event in Revelation 11, 19, 20 etc.

HERE it is in Revelation 11 again

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time ofthe dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

15For this we say unto you by the word ofthe Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming ofthe Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice ofthe archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

We will save verse 17 for last, as it is the best one that proves Jesus comes down to earth with the Greek word apentesis. I forgot to mention the word coming here is Parousia or arrival. So it is the same event we see in II Thes 1 and 2. We will see that very clearly in verse 15 the coming is "Parousia".
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[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,

Now we can bring this section to a conclusion with verse 17. This is exactly the same event we see in Mathew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, II Thes 2, Revelation 10, 11, 19, 1, 20 etc. All the accounts are given to shed various details of the same event. Notice II Thes 2 mentions our gathering together unto him at his coming, arrival or Parousia. We see the same event described in a like fashion in I Thes 4. The pre-tribulationists claim they are two separated events, taking place at least seven years apart. We see nothing in scripture to demonstrate both are separate events; scripture only proves them to be one. Not only does the terminology prove them to be one event but the words also disprove any secret or hidden coming, and the words disprove Christ taking the church away. Finally the words disprove we fly away anywhere. Verse 17 proves these facts even further. Notice we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, as he descends. The word meet, is apentesis; it is no coincidence that Paul used this word here. Paul added this concept with its historical meaning. What this word means is as a dignitary paid his official visit to a city in Hellenistic times, the action of the leading citizens going out to meet the dignitary at his parousia, and escorting him in the remaining part or final stage of his Journey was referred to as the apentesis. So as they saw the dignitary arriving at his parousia, they went out to meet him and greet him, then the citizens would proceed to escort him in to the city. The same word is used here. As Jesus descends, we meet or apentesis him in the air in order to escort him down to earth. This is precisely what is recorded by Paul in scripture. We clearly do not fly away as the pre-tribulation dogma has eroneously has claimed; we meet Him the in air, in order to continue His descent with Him down to earth. There is nothing in scripture or this passage to disprove what Paul has clearly stated.

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17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,

Now we will cover I Thes 5, another famed set of verses proclaimed by pre-tribulationists to show and prove the pre-tribulation rapture. In analyzing these verses obvious errors in these claims will become evident to the readers. Remember, most of these errors are not recognized by these because they are caught in a Darbyist tradition and they pay no heed to doctrinal truths. Just as Roman Catholics do not recognize the obvious errors of celibacy in the priesthood, so these do not recognize their errors, due to tradition and their lack of knowledge or lack of desire in seeking the truth. They prefer to be spoon fed lies, vain traditions of men, and heresies. We will disprove their theory and show the facts. The plan is to continue demonstrating how inaccurate their assumptions are by using Bible passages in which they claim their early rapture is proven and depicted in. As we go along, we will define even more terminologies to prove the errors of pre-tribulationism.

1 Thessalonians 5 (King James Version)


1 Thessalonians 5


1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him

[Gideon7620]

Gideon said,

I Thes 5:9 is where we want to start here. We will proceed in sort of a reverse chronological order to arrive and the meaning in its context. Another reason for starting here is this verse is literally "the cornerstone" of pre-tribulationism. When interpreting the scriptures, context is the king of understanding them. When we back up to verse 2 we see that Paul has set the context here. 2For yourselves know perfectly that "The Day of the Lord" so cometh as a thief in the night. Here, Paul is talking about the wrath of God that shall come to the unbelieving on "The Day of the Lord." The Day of the Lord occurs after the Great Tribulation! Isaiah 13:9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancY of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Jesus sets the timeline for these events also in Mathew 24.29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Paul's main point here is that the church is not appointed the wrath God will pour out on the wicked on "The Day of the Lord," at the end of the Great Tribulation. The word wrath has nothing to do with the Great Tribulation, nor is it the Great Tribulation as they falsely claim. Rather, the wrath occurs at the end of the Great Tribulation, when Jesus arrives to pour it out. We see Revelation 6 also agrees with this, as do all other accounts. Once again, we encounter a perfect description of the celestial events that take place at the end of the GT. What else does the sixth seal reveal? It reveals the kings of the earth are fearful because they see the Great Day of the Lord's wrath is come. TheY see it is here and about to unfold. This Greek manuscript present is in the present tense. This clearly is the time that the wrath of the Lord actually begins, at the end of the GT and not seven or more years earlier as they falsely proclaim, loudly.12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand

As we can see, God's wrath is not the persecutions, troubles, tribulations, and trials that occur during the tribulation as pre-tribulationists proclaim. Imagine what some of these in God's strong delusion will think when we, the saints go through this Great Tribulationj; they will think, the antichrist is God, and that he is pouring his wrath out on us by killing us. The Bible clearly tells us they will think they are doing God a service by killing and persecuting us, the saints.This is the end result of their reason, and holds testimony that they certainly will be in Great Delusion sent by God. We understand clearly now, that God's wrath occurs at the end of the GT, and is directed only towards the wicked, not the saints.

Another seen is visible, and is contained as part of the breaking of the sixth seal. This other seen is in chapter seven. There are many saints that have been ruptured from death and a living hell on earth, and they have been transformed into the likeness of Christ. These have been separated from those whom will see the wrath of God at the end of the GT. 13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Now we can move on to the other verses contained in I Thes 5. In summary, God has not appointed us to the wrath he pours out on The Day of the Lord, at the end of the Great Tribulation is what Paul tells us. Pre-tribulationism, lies and tells us this means God has not appointed the church to the suffering, troubles, persecutions, and tribulations that wil transpire during the Great Tribulation, which is a period of about 3.5 years; in an obvious state of heresy, they refer to the wrath of God as meaning tribulation for Israel during this period. They falsely proclaim with this verse, as they take it way out of context, that Jesus is going to secretly fly us away to heaven, as a thief in the night, since we the church is not subject to God's wrath..We know the tribulation last a total of about 7 years. The persecution starts in the middle of the seven years, continues to the end, and is called the Great Tribulation. The wrath, or The Day of the Lord, comes at the end of the Great Tribulation.

I Thessalonians 5:

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Their false translation of this verse would read as such; God has not appointed the church to tribulation, during the tribulation, but to be saved by Jesus in a secret, hidden, not mentioned in scripture rapture before the TRIBULATION STARTS.

In contrast, an accurate traslaton should be as such; God has not appointed us to the wrath he will pour at the end of the Great Tribulation, but to be saved by Jesus in the rapture, at the end of the Great Tribulation, whether we live or sleep.

[Gideon7620]

[Gideon said,

]Now that we understand what the cornerstone of the pre-tribulation fallacy is, how they misconstrue the meaning, and what it really means we may proceed to the meanings, and misconceptions of the other verses and see how they misconstrue these also. The key to interpreting these first two verses is found in verse 4 where Paul tells us that we are not in darkness that this day should over take us as a thief. The thief comes to judge and bring wrath upon the wicked; he, Jesus does not come unawares to the saints so they can escape from the tribulation. Had the thief represented rapture, the good man of the house would have gladly suffered his house being broken into. The thief here is "The Day of the Lord" -- it is a time of wrath upon those *not* watching. Those watching are not harmed by the thief, because they would have been faithful and watchful, and not caught off guard. We will cover this verb watch and see what it means in the Greek. Verse 1 and 2 are primarily written to the wicked ones whom will be caught off guard. While it is true we will not know the day or hour Jesus is coming in, we must however know the timing or season of his arrival, by observing the signs of the times. As we read on we will see that clearly.

Let's move on to verse three and see how it unfolds. When they shall say peace and safety is when they think everything is finally peaceful and safe in our world. When that happens is when Jesus is about to return. Paul further tells us it is like a woman in travail and having pain to be delivered. So the tribulation contractions will grow stronger and more pronounced as the coming nears. What are the contractions? They are the signs of the times, earthquakes, pestilence, wars, rumors of wars, persecutions against the saints, etc. They, the tribulation pains, will become strong as the second coming nears. Yet they still will not see the signs and think everything is ok; they will not escape

Verse 4 is a key to breaking the meaning of the significance of the thief. Paul instructs us not to worry because we are not in darkness that The Day of the Lord should overtake us as a thief. In other words, we will be able to see and decipher what is going on. Paul tells us that we are of the day and not of the night, so we can see, but those in darkness cannot see. [

]Now the pre-tribulationists are obviously in darkness as they cannot see. Some can [/SIZE]
]1But ofthe times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [/SIZE]
]2For yourselves know perfectly that the day ofthe Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [/SIZE]
]3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [/SIZE]
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

]Gideon said,
Now that we understand what the cornerstone of the pre-tribulation, fallacy is we can see how they misconstrue the interpretation of it, and what it really means; we may next, proceed to the meanings, and misconceptions of the other verses and see how they pervert these also. The key to interpreting these first two verses is found in verse 4 where Paul tells us that we are not in darkness that this day should over take us as a thief. The thief comes to judge and bring wrath upon the wicked; he, Jesus does not come unawares to the saints so they can escape from the tribulation as preached by pre-tribulationism. Had the thief represented rapture, the good man of the house would have gladly suffered his house being broken into. The thief here is "The Day of the Lord" -- it is a time of wrath upon those *not* watching. Those watching are not harmed by the thief, because they would have been faithful and watchful, and not caught off guard. We will cover this verb watch and see what it means in the Greek. Verse 1 and 2 are primarily written to the wicked ones whom will be caught off guard. While it is true we will not know the day or hour Jesus is coming in, we must however know the timing or season of his arrival, by observing the signs of the times. As we read on we will see that clearly.

The word watch comes from the Greek word, "gregoreuo"; it means to watch and be sober, with a mindfulness attention to God's revelations, a mindfulness of threatening dangers, with a conscious earnestness and an alert mind. In other words God wants us to be sober in thought and expectation of the things that are to transpire. Do not let the chaos bother you or make you unfaithful to God. Keep from all drowsiness and all slackening in the energy of faith and conduct. Simply put, God wants us to trust him and be faithful to what he has warned us about and told us already. This fits precisely in post-tribulationism, but it contradicts the thoughts and structures of pre-tribualtionism

]Example, while we believe we are not of the night and can see the signs, simply because we are of the day and in the light, We do not believe as post-tribulationists that this means Jesus is going to fly us away in a secret rapture, not seen anywhere in scripture. Those in the night cannot see truth. We can and we know what it means. The truth is revealed to us because we are of the day and can see it like one sees in the day light.

Contrast what was just stated above to the pre-tribulation dogma. They believe to not be of the night means Jesus is going to secretly fly them away from the tribulation to come. So they erroneously believe the tribulation is the night or the tribulation is the darkness. This is a false analogy, as the night is coming only to those that are in spiritual darkness and cannot see the truth. The night is not the tribulation, but rather it is a condition the wicked will be put in so they cannot see the truth. [

When we watch we are to watch for the signs of his coming. The signs are seen in Mathew 24, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Mark 13, etc. This word watching does not mean to stay up 24 hours per day for 365 days per years to see when he arrives and that arrival may occur anytime since Jesus left, btw according to them. What it means is to have a spiritual awareness, provided by being cognoscente of the times and conditions around us. Yet pre-tribulationists are so confused, they think it means to stay up all night and watch, as they claim Jesus could have come any time after his ascension without any signs to point us to his coming. That is absurd; one has to be brain dead to follow that dogma, especially if they learn what their doctrine implies.

Let's move on to verse three and see how it unfolds. When they shall say peace and safety is when they think everything is finally peaceful and safe in our world. When that happens is when Jesus is about to return. Paul further tells us it is like a woman in travail and having pain to be delivered. So the tribulation contractions will grow stronger and more pronounced as the coming nears. What are the contractions? They are the signs of the times, earthquakes, pestilence, wars, rumors of wars, persecutions against the saints, etc. They, the tribulation pains, will become stronger as the second coming nears. Yet they, the wicked, still will not see the signs and think everything is ok; they will not escape.

]Verse 4 is a key to breaking the meaning of the significance of the thief. Paul instructs us not to worry because we are not in darkness that The Day of the Lord should overtake us as a thief. In other words, we will be able to see and decipher what is going on. Paul tells us that we are of the day and not of the night, so we can see, but those in darkness cannot see. Verse 5 elaborates on this even more.

Now some pre-tribulationists are obviously in darkness as they cannot see. Some cannot see simply because they have never analyzed this doctrine as we are now. The ones that vehemently claim this as accurate doctrine and try to explain the Bible away are most likely in darkness. If so, and they continue in that darkness without repenting, God will send them strong delusion, when he sends it. That is scary. So for some, it will be too late to repent when the strong delusion comes. Verse 6 tells us to not sleep as do others, but let us be sober and watch, aware. The word sleep comes from the Greek word katheudo, and it means to be spiritually asleep.

The word sober in the Greek is nepho, it means to be sober minded, watchful and cercumpspect. This word deos not mean to obstain from alchohol, but can mean to not drink in excess also.We are to be of sound mind; pretibulationism is the oposite of soundmindedness. In verse 6 Paul is telling us to be of soundmind, and not let any wind of doctrine carry us to error

Now we may carry on to the next group verses and conclude this study of I Thes 5. To summarize what we have learned we find that Jesus only comes as a thief in the night to the ones living in darkness, the wicked ones, whom are not part of God's kingdom. Jesus will not come as a thief nor will The Day of the Lord overtake us as a thief or by surprise as we are in the light or of the day. The wicked ones are of the night and cannot discern the signs of the times. Those in darkness or that are not sober, will see the wrath of God on The Day of the Lord. When those in darkness think all is peace and safety, that is when the sudden destruction of the Lord comes upon them.

The error of pretribulationism is discovered in them thinking that since they are not in darkness or of the night, this must mean Jesus is going to fly them away before the tribulation strikes. They wrongfully think they will escape the tribulation as they wrongfully apply the night or darkness as being the tribulation. Nence they rediculously conclude, Jesus is going to fly them away secretly, and they all are going to disappear when he does. This doctrine is as crazy as it sounds. There view is warped and contradicts scripture entirely. As we have learned, the darkness is the spiritual darkness of not being able to see the truth.

1But ofthe times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [/SIZE]
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day ofthe Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [/SIZE]
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [/SIZE]
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [/SIZE]
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children ofthe day: we are not ofthe night, nor of darkness. [/SIZE]
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.