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Old 06-22-2009, 11:22 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,588,200 times
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Originally Posted by dcisive View Post
Make NO mistake about it. There is NO FREE RIDE. You DO have an opportunity to partake of HIS sacrifice, but if you do NOT you are NOT HIS. HE want's your love AND your obedience as THAT is what separates a believer from a non. Remember (HIS own words) I come BUT for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel..........hmmmm I don't see any word "church" there do you? ;-)
So the question is was it a sufficient atonement or a potential atonement-that we need to meet Jesus half way?
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:15 PM
 
257 posts, read 444,746 times
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GOD took the worst sinner on Earth and saved him. He was the most zealous church hater and was a Pharisee of the Pharisees and a Hebrew of the Hebrews. One important reason why Paul was saved was to show the mercy of GOD and His willingness to save even the worst sinner.

But Paul didn't become a robot. There are no human robots. We all have a responsibility to follow JESUS CHRIST. Salvation is still soley by grace. But rebellion against GOD can block out the grace freely offered.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForHimByHim View Post
GOD took the worst sinner on Earth and saved him. He was the most zealous church hater and was a Pharisee of the Pharisees and a Hebrew of the Hebrews. One important reason why Paul was saved was to show the mercy of GOD and His willingness to save even the worst sinner.

But Paul didn't become a robot. There are no human robots. We all have a responsibility to follow JESUS CHRIST. Salvation is still soley by grace. But rebellion against GOD can block out the grace freely offered.
Isn't that amazing? what Gives God the most glory? saving the worst sinner? so in actuality true Christians are THE worst mankind has to offer WOW! I am the worst mankind has to offer.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Correct, and thats how the devils seed gets into the world..for cain was of the wicked one 1 jn 3:

12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
How was Cain of that wicked one? How did it happen, please explain what you mean.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:33 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,906,226 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You haven't. Our job is not to know who the elect are but to tell ALL men about Christ.
What are we supposed to tell them? We can't tell them that Christ died for them (according to your doctirine) since it might be lie. Do you see the problem?
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:34 PM
 
Location: A Place With REAL People
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that is absurd to consider Shaul (Paul) the WORST of sinners. He was a superb choice to teach the Word of YHVH to all the Jews and Gentiles alike. NOBODY knew HIS word letter by letter better (except of course Yahushua HIMSELF). YHVH chooses those to work for HIM very wisely indeed, and Shaul(Paul) was a great choice no question. I think it had fairly little to do with the fact he was "preserved"(you call it saved) to go forth and teach HIS word, moreso he was the perfect choice as he knew and understood all of the cultures as well as the Hebraic understanding of the faith. He was without question the most highly educated of them all. YHVH makes the best of decisions regarding who will work for HIS glory. Indeed it worked out very nicely.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Some of His elect before conversion, were responsible for His death..He only prayed for those who were elected..
Yes, they were murderers and therefore not Abraham's seed since the children of Abraham do the works of Abraham.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Wilmington, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Isn't that amazing? what Gives God the most glory? saving the worst sinner? so in actuality true Christians are THE worst mankind has to offer WOW! I am the worst mankind has to offer.
I'm not sure that's what he meant by that but yes, Paul was a bad man and Jesus had a Word with him. It was Paul though, upon personally witnessing the power and the glory of Chirst, realized he had made some bad choices.

You're probably not as bad as Paul was before Jesus got a hold of him but even so, all of us are sinners and it really only takes one to own the label.

I like Peter - No Jesus, I'll never let you wash my feet. Well, unless you do then you will never have any part with me. Whoa Lord, then you can wash my feet, my hands and my head as well.

Jesus also told Peter to get thee behind me satan.

I like Peter, he screwed some things up and he took some grief for it but he is the rock.

I sometimes feel like Peter and sometimes like Paul. I just keep praying for forgiveness for what I screwed up today and better judgment on my decisions for tomorrow.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:40 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,588,200 times
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Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
What are we supposed to tell them? We can't tell them that Christ died for them (according to your doctirine) since it might be lie. Do you see the problem?
All we have to say is, "Christ died to pay the penalty for sin and provide a way for sinners to be reconciled to a holy God. Believe in Him and you will be saved."
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: NC
14,915 posts, read 17,232,628 times
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Colossians 1: 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

God bless.
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