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Old 06-22-2009, 07:13 AM
 
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Jesus called them serpents and vipers because they the murdered the prophets.
  • Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.
Jesus called them children of the devil because they were murderers, seeking to kill Jesus.

  • John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Whoever hates his brother (by seeking to kill him) is a child of the devil.
  • 1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Some of those children of the devil who "filled up the measure of their fathers" by crucifying Christ, later repented and received the Holy Spirit. The promise was to them.
  • Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Germany
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I believe Jesus did not die on the cross for the whole world but for His elect who He predestined to be in heaven but there is no verse that God desires for men to go to hell. This is just another mystery of God which in our perverted, fallen state we are in we could never know nor comprehend. We should not fill in the blanks; we should only go from scripture. Much safer.
that sounds more Lutheran than Calvinist, Luther taught predestination to heaven, but not predestination to hell as far as I know, did Calvin teach double-predestination?

this 'serpent seed doctrine', is it Calvinist or a modern invention? I have never heard before of it.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:18 AM
 
Location: The A
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Jesus called them serpents and vipers because they the murdered the prophets.
And because they were of that seed of the serpent..gen 3:

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Germany
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but God created the serpent on the 6th day (Genesis 1:24-31)

The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. (Psalms 145:9)
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:29 AM
 
Location: The A
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
(WNT) O serpents, O vipers' brood, how are you to escape condemnation to Gehenna?

(YLT) `Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

(GNT-WH+) οφειςM γεννηματα εχιδνων πως φυγητε απο της κρισεως της γεεννης

(CLV) Serpents! Progeny of vipers! How may you be fleeing from the judging of Gehenna?

(ALT) "Serpents! Brood of vipers! How shall you* escape from the judgment of hell [Gr., gehenna]?

Gehenna is the trash dump just to the south of Jerusalem.
Jesus gave them NO HOPE of escaping the damnation of Hell..

The word Hell here is the greek word:

geenna and it has this defintion:

Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

Notice too, the dead animals , beast of the city were cast..thats because God views people who are the seed of the devil as beast and good to be taken and be destroyed..peter gives the anology 2 pet 2:

12But these, as natural brute beasts, made [born] to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

the word for destroy is:
phthora and it means:
corruption, destruction, perishing
a) that which is subject to corruption, what is perishable
b) in the Christian sense, eternal misery in hell
2) in the NT, in an ethical sense, corruption i.e. moral decay

And that word made, its the same word we get the word born from..so peter is teaching that some men are born unto eternal misery in hell..

which is no different from pauls vessels of wrath being made for destruction..rom 9:

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
And because they were of that seed of the serpent..gen 3:

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
They were known to be the seed of the devil precisely because they murdered the prophets and were seeking to murder Christ. There is no "..and because..." about it.

This says that the seed of the devil vs the seed of Chrst are manifest by what they do.
  • 1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
This plainly says that the seed of Abraham do the works of Abraham while the seed of the devil do the deeds of the devil.
  • John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father.
So those who murdered Christ were the seed of the devil. The promise was to them too.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:32 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,564,901 times
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Originally Posted by svenM View Post
that sounds more Lutheran than Calvinist, Luther taught predestination to heaven, but not predestination to hell as far as I know, did Calvin teach double-predestination?

this 'serpent seed doctrine', is it Calvinist or a modern invention? I have never heard before of it.
Serpent seed doctrine is neither Calvinist nor Christian it is however racist.

I don't know what to tell ya, it's scriptural. The bible is pretty clear in scripture that Jesus did not come to save every man, woman and child (past, present, future) but He came to save the "world" that "believes"

I believe Calvin taught a certain form of double predestination but since I do not see it in scripture then I will not accept it; That is hyper Calvinism: "the idea that some people have is that God appoints some people to heaven, some people to hell, and then He is as active in making those people on their way to hell evil, as He is active in making those people on their way to heaven good."
I do however believe in double predestination when defined differently in which "God chose whom He would save and before the foundation of the world, left everyone else, passed over them, left them in their sins, then their destiny is determined as well. It's determined. But it isn't by any active effort on God's part that they are made evil. It's their own fault."
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:34 AM
 
Location: The A
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This says that the seed of the devil vs the seed of Chrst are manifest by what they do.
Right manifested, but they were before manifested...
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Serpent seed doctrine is neither Calvinist nor Christian it is however racist.

I don't know what to tell ya, it's scriptural.
Any seprent seed doctrine based on race is absolutely not scriptural.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:38 AM
 
Location: The A
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Originally Posted by svenM View Post
but God created the serpent on the 6th day (Genesis 1:24-31)

The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. (Psalms 145:9)
God hates the devil which is the serpent, and is going to put him and his children in the lake of fire, now if you call that Gods goodness..lol..so be it..

Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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