Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It seems to me that the watchers being spiritual beings could not have had sex with (married human beings) marriage is not the ceremony- There is a ceremony that is a ritual, the marriage is the actual cohabiting, sex and producing young. It seems that Jesus was disputing the concept in enoch that spirit beings can cohabit with flesh - In other places Jesus says that flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. Flesh does not have sex with spirit. Flesh is raised to Spirit.Will think and post later
Watchers take on human being bodies at will, but not human being [Adam] spirit.
Angels can take human being bodies at will -shape shift- and eat food and commit fornication in those bodies [and other iniquities], if they rebel against the Word of God.
Angels appear as men in real bodies when they come down to earth to do their God ordained duty and business.
Those who remained by a rebellion, to marry Adam daughters and get sons, could never go back to heaven, as Enoch revealed to them from the mouth of God, the Great Glory on His throne; and as Jude read and remarked the same upon, in Jude.
They left their habitation in heaven by choice, committing fornication with daughters of Adam, and could not return there, but were bound in Sheol beneath earth at the time of the flood. More angels sinned the same after the flood, Moses reports, in Genesis.
Roman armies fought the giants for centuries before they finally conquered them. Once, the giants burned Rome to the ground; and you can read the history of them in ancient history books.
The sons of Jacob decimated many cities of the giants in the first six day war as is reported in the Book of Jasher, chapters 33-44 or so, and the sons of Israel came into Canaan doing the same to the remaining [and increased] cities, occupied by giants and by men in collusion with them; and David finished them off in Canaan. But they were in other areas of the world, as historical writings prove, and as ancient architecture around the world also proves.
Moses says -from Enoch's record- that sons of God/ben Elohim took/laqach daughters of Adam/bath Adam, and "went in to them/ had sexual union with them", and thereby sons were born to the sons of God/angels; and Moses said that angels did this both before the flood and after the flood -but not the same angels, as the first were chained as a warning.
Those before the flood were chained in Sheol as a warning to other [angels], says Jude, to not commit that fornication with alien flesh; just as Sodom and Gomorra and the cities of the plain were nuked as a warning to other [men] to not commit that fornication.
Angels still sinned after the flood, and men still sinned after Sodom and the cities were nuked. Warnings are disregarded by those who choose to do iniquity, but God will judge in the end, as He warned He would.
In the OT, those sons of fallen sons of God are called giants/nephillim, and other names, just as in Enoch. Goliath was a nephillim spirit, not a human being spirit, being born of the descendants of Anak, a nephillim. Nephillim have no human being spirit and are not written in the Book of Life and have no possibility for redemption by the blood of Jesus Christ, who came as the Kinsman to Adam, as the second creation human being in a body prepared new, in the womb of the virgin, for Him who is Christ, the Living Spirit, to indwell.
In the OT, [oops, not in Judges, so I edited], in Samuel and Chronicles there are two אריאל lion el/lion/angel mixed creatures, wrongly translated as lion like men, but the Hebrew says lion-el.-Edit here, lion el was the Hebrew, I had said gebers, but that is what the men would be who were mixed from lion and el....
In Jasher there are creatures called emin/yemin which means "terrors", and they were fearful creatures as described in Jasher [http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/home.html] (http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/home.html%5D - broken link), actual nightmares. They are counted as giants, the OT says
In Genesis 18, angels ate calf, butter, milk, bread, with Abraham, and in the NT, Heb 13:2 says to be careful to entertain strangers -that means give hospitality, including food- for many have entertained angels thereby.
In the NT, Jesus rose in the same body in which he is come incarnate, and ate food. He says he will eat food with us in heaven, in the kingdom of God.
In the wilderness, Israelite's ate angels' food, a grain, for forty years, cast out of doors opened in heaven, daily, to feed millions, but not on the Sabbath.
Quote:
Psalm 78:23-25 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven, And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven. Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.
Angels can cook, and one cooked for Elijah two meals, and angels eat, as they did so with Abraham in Genesis 18. They also stayed with Lot for the night, so perhaps they also ate with Lot?
And angels in human bodies but without human spirits and souls can commit fornication, as Enoch and the OT and other ancient books like Jasher, says. Jude corroborates that fact.
Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 07-19-2009 at 04:33 PM..
Enoch doesn't fly with the rest of scripture. I'm sorry.
I just did a research paper in the spring semester on Melchizedek. My studies of him brought me to Enoch. This story below is an example of why the book is not considered inspired.
This thread is not about the second book of Enoch, and I don't do the second book of Enoch, as that is not written by Enoch, and does not correlate with the OT or with the Book of Jasher or with 1 Enoch, which all three do correlate together. 1 Enoch is is included in the Canon of the Ethiopian Church and does not contradict the Ot or the NT, and is the foundational book for the doctrines of the Son of Man in heaven, the Lake of Fire, Sheol beneath earth, the angels marrying daughters of Adam, the resurrection, the flood of Noah, the Tribulation at the last days and the kingdom of Peace when the Son of Man reigns, and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth after that.
-And Jasher says that Shem is Melche [king] zedek [righteousness], a title used by more than one king in the OT, denoting being a king and a priest.
Shem, as Melche Zedek, meets Abram and gives him the same blessing of Firstborn of earth, which Shem was given by Noah, who got it from Methuseleh, who got it from Enoch, who got it from Seth, which goes on down, through Moses, split to priest through Levi's tribe, and king through Judah's tribe, and then to Jesus Christ, from the Levite priest [John] who baptised Jesus, who Himself is the everliving, never dying, Firstborn of earth, of the second Man creation.
It is His title now, and there will be no more high priests in Israel who serve in that office of Christ in the millinnum, for Aaron's sons only rehearsed Christ's work, anointed in His office until it would all be fulfilled by the Firstborn, Christ come in flesh.
In Hebrews, we read that the king of righteousness, Melche-zedek, was not named in Genesis by Moses [who knew] because the Holy Spirit "morphed" him into a type, for instruction, of the Son of God; who has no father, no mother, no beginning, no ending, no genealogy; as the author of Hebrews says.
Shem and Abram were contempories, and even Noah and Abram were contempories. Shem even attended Sarah's funeral, as Jasher tells us, and anyone can add up the years and see that indeed, Shem lived until after Isaac was born, but Jasher adds it all up for us and gives all the dates and ages of births and deaths and events in their lives of all the patriarchs, from Adam to Joshua.
The very reason the Book of Enoch was deleted from the canon of scripture is because the book explains how the Son of Adam, namely Enoch the seventh from Adam in the line of Christ, was taken by God (via angels), and brought into his antecedent inheritance, that is to say "Christ" which positionally is where God The Father was; however, God is Pure, and cannot look upon sin, so He took one from among the people, that is to say "He brought salvation unto Himself," one among a thousand, and clothed this "Son of man" in the garments of His Glory, that is to say "Christ". And God declared, "My Glory, I will not give to another."
The very reason the Book of Enoch was deleted from the canon of scripture is because the book explains how the Son of Adam, namely Enoch the seventh from Adam in the line of Christ, was taken by God (via angels), and brought into his antecedent inheritance, that is to say "Christ" which positionally is where God The Father was; however, God is Pure, and cannot look upon sin, so He took one from among the people, that is to say "He brought salvation unto Himself," one among a thousand, and clothed this "Son of man" in the garments of His Glory, that is to say "Christ". And God declared, "My Glory, I will not give to another."
This is false.
You are wrong on the Book of Enoch, and what you are saying is no place to be found in Enoch, the Ethiopian Enoch, 1 Enoch, Enoch 1, the Dead Sea Scrolls Enoch.
There are false Enoch's out there, and this is not about false Enoch's.
And as to "canon/lists", that is politics, pure and simple, and the Holy Spirit is not into changing His mind on what is "inspired" or not, as fallible men are.
Read 1 Enoch [Ethiopian Enoch,] here, so you'll have an idea of what it says: The Book of Enoch
There was a book of the Bible that was thought lost by both the Eastern and Western orthodox Churches. It was a old testament book, not a part of the Tanakh, called the Book of Enoch. It existed in Ethiopia, were the Ethiopian Jews took it with them when they fled Isreal, and is considered canon by the Ethiopian church.
It was not part of the Canon bibles for the SOLE REASON that no one in Europe or the near east had a copy, BUT, all the early orthodox Christian fathers, Iranaeus, Justin, Clement, all said that it was indeed a inspired work...if only they could find a copy
So, it was lost, until the early part of the 1600s, when traders from Europe finally managed to get through the muslim-territory boundary between Christian Europe and Christian Ethiopia and get a couple of copies, but by then, it was too late, because the Nicene bible was done and no one wanted to include any new works.
Thing is...the book of Enoch IS REFERENCED TO IN THE CANONICAL NEW TESTAMENT! In the epistle of Jude, 14, it quotes directly from the book of Enoch.
So, here's a question to all of you who follow the Nicene Bible*...
Do you A, say "well, the Epistle of Jude quotes it, so it must be cannon!" and except it and go get a copy (at any Barnes and Noble under the Bible apocrypha section) and crazy glue it in the OT. Or, do you say B, "well, if the Epistle of Jude quotes a non-canon book, than the Epistle of Jude can't be canon!" and exacto knife it out of the NT?
Sorry...but how could you not do one or the other?
* by "Nicene Bible" I mean the protestant and caholic versions of the bible and those that except the Nicene creed.
Why is it not in the Bible? Maybe it's just redundant. Is there any teaching in Enoch that can be found nowhere else? If the Catholic Church REALLY wanted the Book of Enoch in there, it would have been in there.
...false...wrong...no where to be found...things are not as you would have them appear. I neither said or implied that WHAT I SAID can be DIRECTLY(what you implied) found in any of the books you listed. All I said was that "the book explains how God took the seventh from Adam, and brought him into his antecedent inheritance..."
"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."
Genesis 5:24 KJV
What thoughts did Enoch prayerfully consider and weigh in the balance...what words did Enoch prayerfully declare in his walk with God...what blessed act(s) of faith did Enoch diligently lay hold on... that God Almighty was pleased to save this seventh from Adam from experiencing a death altogether unpleasing to Him ???
What death do you suppose God was pleased to have Enoch experience ?
Are you familiar with lawyers ? Jesus declared, "Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered." Luke 11:52 KJV
Are you listening? The key of knowledge was taken away, and those that continue to "hide it" refuse to enter in to all truth, and those that want to are prevented from doing so by those that refuse the invitation.
It's not in the Christian Bible because it wasn't part of the Greek or Hebrew Jewish canon, which is what ultimately became the Old Testament.
Uh -there are missing books from the OT precisely because the Jews got their temple burned, their books hidden, and themselves scattered.
There are several books named in the OT that we do not have, and the Book of Jasher is one which we do have, since the mid-1800's in English translation.
And the Book of Enoch was banned by the Christ rejecting Jews of the first century precisely because it is obviously about Jesus Christ, as God, the Son of Man in heaven, whom Enoch, alone, saw hidden with God, and who was God and who was to come.
The Roman Church, being backslidden several hundred years after the NT Church was founded, also excluded it nearly four hundred years after the Church was founded, and they did so, following the Christ rejecting Jews of the first century.
The Ethiopian Jews who were converted to Christ never excluded it, as they never followed Rome, and it was always in their "Bible", from before they became born again in Christ believers, beginning in the first century!
...false...wrong...no where to be found...things are not as you would have them appear. I neither said or implied that WHAT I SAID can be DIRECTLY(what you implied) found in any of the books you listed. All I said was that "the book explains how God took the seventh from Adam, and brought him into his antecedent inheritance..."
"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."
Genesis 5:24 KJV
What thoughts did Enoch prayerfully consider and weigh in the balance...what words did Enoch prayerfully declare in his walk with God...what blessed act(s) of faith did Enoch diligently lay hold on... that God Almighty was pleased to save this seventh from Adam from experiencing a death altogether unpleasing to Him ???
What death do you suppose God was pleased to have Enoch experience ?
Are you familiar with lawyers ? Jesus declared, "Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered." Luke 11:52 KJV
Are you listening? The key of knowledge was taken away, and those that continue to "hide it" refuse to enter in to all truth, and those that want to are prevented from doing so by those that refuse the invitation.
Could you translate that????
Enoch is the firstborn son of the Living Spirit, Christ, and Enoch was born again in Spirit before Christ came in flesh -incarnate. -Why? So that the inheritance was not lost which the dead Adam had sold. It's about the biblical law of firstborn sons of a barren widow from her second husband, the kinsman redeemer husband. The first son is raised in the name of the dead husband, so that the inheritance is not lost.
Watchers take on human being bodies at will, but not human being [Adam] spirit.
Yikes!!! At will? Have you been with one?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Book Of Enoch
The key of knowledge
