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Do a search of samhaim, a Celtic festival which corresponds with halloween.
Absolutely true, but issue was being taken with the word satanic used where the word pagan was appropriate.
Now given that Christmas, and Easter also started as Pagan Holidays. I don't see the difference between taking those festivals and grafting Christianity onto them, and doing the same with Halloween. Which is prrtty much what All Saints/All Souls is.
Absolutely true, but issue was being taken with the word satanic used where the word pagan was appropriate.
Now given that Christmas, and Easter also started as Pagan Holidays. I don't see the difference between taking those festivals and grafting Christianity onto them, and doing the same with Halloween. Which is prrtty much what All Saints/All Souls is.
Exactly the reason I do not take part in Christmas and Easter.
In Christianity, Satan is the opposer of God. Pagan goes against God. With whom do pagan celebrations originate with then?
I have no idea what a harvest festival is so forgive my ignorance on that matter, but I do know that we aren't supposed to try to "Christianize" Halloween.
We are to reject it! Ephesians 5:11
You say that you have no idea what a Harvest Festival is and give a scripture. I have gone and re-read that scripture, but not only that one quoted but the verses before and after as well and I believe it gives a good example of why a Harvest Festival could be a good thing.
First, a Harvest Festival, of the kind that I have attended with my children on the church property, is an opportunity for believers to give their children an alternative to the traditional Halloween activities. In this alternative, rather than roaming the streets knocking on doors and getting candy, the children come to church. In my old church it was held in the parking log. Booths were set up by the various ministries of the church and in such booths there were activities such as pie throwing, tossing a ball into a hole, paintball, kareoki <sp>, pretty as a princess face painting, balloons, etc. Free hotdogs and drinks were provided and they had a costume contest. Yes it was promoted that there be no evil/demonic type costumes. Most of the kids came dressed as princess' or biblical characters or even a favorite cartoon character. After 9/11 the majority were dressed as policemen, firefighters, doctors and nurses.
When the kids participated in a game at one of the booths they got a little brown bag with safe candy and little toys with a godly message or even tracts. There was a booth set up from where praise and worship music was playing and occassionally one of the children church teachers would come up and share the word of God, providing opportunity for anyone walking by the church and stopping in to see what was going on to be able to come up, ask questions and accept Jesus. Which I might add happened quite frequently. There are several people in the church that started coming after hearing the word of God at the Harvest Festival and accepting the invitation to come to service that next Sunday morning.
The scripture you gave in Ephesians 5, I would like to expand from just verse 11 to include verses 8-16, which state...
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.
Notice it says we were once in darkness but now we are in the light. Have nothing to do with fruitless deeds, however, if the deed produces fruit, good fruit, i.e as reaching the community with an alternative, growing our children in the giving each day to the Lord, and exposing the difference between Godly and ungodly, if souls receive the message of God and in turn give their lives to God as a result, then fruit is being produced.
The scripture says also making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. A Harvest Festival can be exactly that, making the most of the opportunity to reach the unchurched while providing the churched something to do that day and an opportunity to minister to others. Take for example, my children have made the most of the opportunity by inviting their friends to this event. Many have come. Many continued to come with us after to various church activities and services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutral
Instead if you REALLY want to glorify God then all of us Christians need to be praying on Halloween.
That most definately is something that as Christians we should be doing, but not only on Halloween, but every day. Now when it comes to halloween, the way I see it also is do I take advantage of the opportunity when it "knocks" or do I turn my lights off and ignore the "knock". See when a child knocks on my door and I open it, I am given an opportunity to plant a seed. I do so by including a tract, by sharing a word with the child, and at times by merely saying, may God bless you. Jesus never turned away the lost, He tried to reach them. I see this as an opportunity to do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutral
Now this message isn't for everyone but God said to go ahead and speak the truth. If it's not for you then you'll know by your reaction "oh my goodness, that isn't true, you are so paranoid, where's my halloween candy for the kids"
This day does nothing but glorify Satan. Do you know the history of trick or treat? It was practiced by the Druids. They went around asking for "treats" which happened to be human sacrifices of the female persuasion. If you didn't give it to them, then you were in for a "trick" which was a symbol drawn on your house with the threat that Satan would kill someone in your house that night.
Research it.
If we believe that "This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it" then everyday belongs to God. We as Christians must be diligent in giving each day back to God, in claiming all days for Him. We can not simply say this day belongs to the devil without trying by all means to take it back from Him and give it back to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutral
Instead of trying to make this a "christian" celebration, we need to be praying on Halloween for all of the human sacrifices that go on during that day. Yes, there are still human sacrifice rituals that go on several times per year. Halloween is a big one.
IMO we can do both. We can be praying, and again, with regards to my old church the praying for this day begins long before the day arrives. That many would be reached and touched on that day, during the activities and the God would lead us in how to reach the lost. However, by the same token, we do also put the practical in place and step up to the plate with an activity or event that can sieze the opportunity to reach out to the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutral
Why you should care is that this is how the devil is gaining his power to bring to light all that is to come in Revelation. Sure, what's going to happen is going to happen but we can slow it down. Because right now isn't the right time, we aren't ready yet, but if we aren't praying against these ceremonies, praying for God that they won't get the sacrifices or that the sacrifices will be set free then bad times will be here sooner than we think.
We already see it coming. We see it with what is going on. But we can still slow it down by intercessory prayer.
So instead of letting your kids trick or treat and possible getting candy from people who "pray" evil things over the candy before they hand it out, instead of glorifying Satan by participating in this evil holiday (and that can be researched), wake up!
Don't fall for the devils schemes. "It isn't that bad" , "you can participate by going around to houses spreading God's word." - No, God already told you not to mix darkness with light. Don't you know how clever the devil is? Don't you know that the devil has his people in the church misleading you?
I'll be spending the week before up until the day praying.
It was hard for me to admit that some things that seem normal have deep satanic roots but I'm not surprised as the devil is clever.
I pray that you all will pray over this issue and that you'll be compelled to pray for our world.
I agree with you that the devil is decieving and clever. But that is why the children of God have to be alert and even more clever than he is. I agree that it's best to not have our children receiving candy from strangers, not knowing what is practiced in those homes. However, all the more reason why an alternative for our children, one which places the focus on Godly things, rather than material or satanic or what not, is so much better. And not only for our children, but think about all those kids that wander in out of curiousity for what is going on there and what they receive is the word of God, all the prayers that have gone into that day, that environment and end up sticking around for a long time both on that night, and other days to come in many cases.
It's about taking back what the devil has tried to steal. The devil has tried to steal this day and claim it for his own, for his kingdom. We say NO. We take it back and say this is God's day and He will be glorified.
Giving sacrifices to satan is satanic; therefore in that context the word was very appropriate.
We aren't talkig about sacrifices to Satan. Pagan sacrifices would have been made to other Gods, in most cases by people who had never heard of Christianity or Satan. You can't be making sacrifices to someone you never heard of. I don't mean this as a pro Paganism statement (though attacking Dead religions is kind of a waste of time and modern Pagans are harmless enough folk). You may feel they are both horribly eveil, but htey are not the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh
In Christianity, Satan is the opposer of God. Pagan goes against God. With whom do pagan celebrations originate with then?
With misguided humans.
Paganism and satanism are different things. Whether one loves them both, hates them both, loves one hates the other, etc. They are not the same thing. These people did not know of or acknowledge the existance of Satan, or the Chrisitan God. They weren't in opposition or support of either.
You might not be, but I am. If you read both of my somewhat long posts in their entirety it is clear that I am talking about sacrifices that are made to Satan.
Besides if something isn't from God, it's from Satan. You can call it what you want, wicca, pagan, witch, warlock, vampire, whatever other following or religion. If it's not coming from God then Christians are called to know who it is coming from.
That is all I am going to say about this issue unless another clarification needs to be made.
I originally posted in this thread because I felt that it would be beneficial to someone. I hoped to educate but I was the one who received an education.
I learned that you cannot change someones mind when they have made it up. You cannot tell someone something they don't want to hear. If people choose to go by logic and feelings instead of faith and obedience, nothing will stop it. No warning, no scripture, nothing but the power of God will change a persons heart.
I don't need to hear "well we should take it back" or "the church said it's ok" because God has already spoken. I'm willing to deny myself, the intelligence that I think I have, and my reasoning's and justifications, and follow Him. If you aren't at that point, I understand that because as I said, that message wasn't for everyone and you'd know by your reaction.
Paganism and satanism are different things. Whether one loves them both, hates them both, loves one hates the other, etc. They are not the same thing. These people did not know of or acknowledge the existance of Satan, or the Chrisitan God. They weren't in opposition or support of either.
Just because they didn't know of or acknowledge Satan's existence doesn't mean that Satan wasn't the designer behind paganism. Bottom line is that if it is a pagan ritual, a festival to honor any other "God", or another philosophy that contradicts the Christian faith, it does not originate with the Christian God. Why would a Christian participate in anything that has anything to do with nonchristian beliefs?
Just because they didn't know of or acknowledge Satan's existence doesn't mean that Satan wasn't the designer behind paganism. Bottom line is that if it is a pagan ritual, a festival to honor any other "God", or another philosophy that contradicts the Christian faith, it does not originate with the Christian God. Why would a Christian participate in anything that has anything to do with nonchristian beliefs?
Everything has something to do with non Christian beliefs. Even Virgin Birth mythology. And Halloween may have started that way, but it is no longer. I know lots of people who celebrate it. Christians, Jews, Athiests, Agnostics, even yes a couple of Neo Pagans, and none of them - not even the Neo Pagans - treat it as a religious holiday. It isn't anymore. Whatever it once was, it isn't anymore.
And no I don't believe that Satan was the designer behind Paganism. Pagan beliefs were simply beliefs ina different God. Unless you blame Satan for Judiaism existing after Christ, Islam, etc than Paganism isn't Satanic either.
Bottom Lines, Halloween is by no means a religious observence in the modern world, and unless all Non Christian beliefs, are Satanism, then neither is Paganism.
BTW : Although I disagreee, I do respect the consistancy in not celebrating Christmas or Easter either.
I have no problem with trick or treating. Let children dress up and have fun. I do need to say to parents ---please,please, please keep an eye on your children and do not let them out of your sight when you take them trick or treating. When I was a kid (in the 80's) my mom & aunts used to take me and my cousins trick or treating in a big group. I was nearly abducted one year because there were so many of us and with the costumes it was hard for the parents to keep track of all of us. Its a long and very scary story so I'm not going to go into the details but I mention this as a reminder to keep an eye on everyone. Its a fun night but has the potential to be dangerous.
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