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The only thing amazing about this is how twisted it is. It is a radical departure from the true gospel of God's grace, where His great and irrevocable love and mercy are given freely to unworthy sinners.
God is not unjust. He does not allow anyone into heaven who is not deserving. Christ's grace is so powerful that He actually makes us deserving of heaven. It's a complete transformation from the inside out that He works in us.
A genuine faith in Jesus Christ will produce good works.....Works don't save a man.
However, faith without works is a dead faith, a lifeless faith - James 2:26,17; Matthew 7:21
Not just 'secular good Samaritan works' but 'spiritual work' needed as Jesus instructed to do at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Secular work alone does Not save, but needs to be coupled with spiritual work that genuine faith in Jesus Christ will produce good works ( both secular and spiritual works )
God is not unjust. He does not allow anyone into heaven who is not deserving. Christ's grace is so powerful that He actually makes us deserving of heaven. It's a complete transformation from the inside out that He works in us.
Any merit that we have is only because of Christ. Salvation is indeed only through God's grace.
Just as we partake in His sufferings, we partake in His reward. Christ's merit is infinite or superabundant, and He actually allows us to partake of it and in so doing, make it our own.
We are not a "snow-covered dung heap" as Luther said; the dung heap is actually transformed into something good and meritorious all because of Christ.
We DON'T have any merit. Salvation is based on God's grace. Not on any merit on our part.
God is not unjust. He does not allow anyone into heaven who is not deserving. Christ's grace is so powerful that He actually makes us deserving of heaven. It's a complete transformation from the inside out that He works in us.
I would agree with you here.
I will say however that initial grace is unmerited favour since all of us start out as sinners.
It is also true that before we receive our glorified bodies, we continue to be sinners (1 John 1:8, Romans 7:18, 1 Timothy 1:15); the word "sinners" being defined as "those who have indwelling sin"; not necessarily as "those who continue to commit sin".
For sin can be rendered dead within you (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12 (nlt)).
Therefore, since we continue to be sinners, it should be clear that we are not deserving of heaven.
God is not unjust. He does not allow anyone into heaven who is not deserving. Christ's grace is so powerful that He actually makes us deserving of heaven. It's a complete transformation from the inside out that He works in us.
In Scripture it is God who chooses who will be Jesus' spiritual brothers who will govern with Christ in Heaven.
They have that first or earlier resurrection - Rev. 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10
They are like the people at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18.
The majority of people are offered 'everlasting life' on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Even people like David are Not resurrected to Heaven - Acts 2:34 - No one who died before Jesus is offered Heaven.
I will say however that initial grace is unmerited favour since all of us start out as sinners.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
It is also true that before we receive our glorified bodies, we continue to be sinners (1 John 1:8, Romans 7:18, 1 Timothy 1:15); the word "sinners" being defined as "those who have indwelling sin"; not necessarily as "those who continue to commit sin".
For sin can be rendered dead within you (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12 (nlt)).
Therefore, since we continue to be sinners, it should be clear that we are not deserving of heaven.
I would disagree. We are not to remain sinners. We must confess our sins every time we commit them. This is how we are perfected.
I would disagree. We are not to remain sinners. We must confess our sins every time we commit them. This is how we are perfected.
We are no longer to be sinners by the definition that a sinner is "someone who sins".
But we continue to be sinners by the definition that a sinner is "someone who has indwelling sin".
Again, a person can be a sinner by the second definition and yet not be a sinner by the first definition.
Because the element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14, 8:12).
If the devil had not been cast to earth, then Adam would never have been tempted and would never have sinned. He and Eve would have lived forever in natural bliss, and they would have produced progeny who would also live forever in natural bliss.
But that means, Lucifer did not 'rebel'...his fall and subsequent tempting of Adam and Eve to commit the first original sin....was NECESSARY?
Please excuse another analogy, but it applies pretty well here...If I were to 'rebel' against my parents, what are the chances Im going to assist them in their larger grand plan? (in reality, since I was rebelling, I would make it a point to make sure Im NOT assisting or helping them in anyway), that is what rebellion is.
I realize that our puny human minds have limitations, as to what we can comprehend, but the story of Lucifer rebelling against God/Heaven, and then being booted out of Heaven, (along with his followers)...and then we are supposed to believe Lucifer tempted Adam and Eve, to further Gods grand plan? LOL
Lucifer would have recognized the larger plan too, I just dont think he would have done anything that assisted or benefited God after he fell.
Is it possible for mankind to have temptation...without some devil/demons/opposing force?
I think so, but Im not sure what temptation would look like, or how strong it would be in such an existence.
We are no longer to be sinners by the definition that a sinner is "someone who sins".
But we continue to be sinners by the definition that a sinner is "someone who has indwelling sin".
Again, a person can be a sinner by the second definition and yet not be a sinner by the first definition.
Because the element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14, 8:12).
I disagree with your second definition. Sin is not a tangible thing. Our corporate guilt for original sin is washed away in baptism. We remain susceptible to sin, and that is called concupiscence; but it's not a tangible thing that dwells in us like a parasite or something. It's just our broken state of being.
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