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You're missing the point. The Bible has to be interpreted according to the culture of that day. To the early Hebrews, the ones who wrote the story, and the ones who believed in supernatural beings, the sons of God in Genesis 6:2-4 were angels. This is reflected in 2nd temple period Jewish literature such as 1 Enoch which states that there were two hundred angels who left heaven and descended to the top of Mt. Hermon where they made a pact to take human women for wives.
Now if you are interested, scholar Amar Annus argues the angels (watchers) and the Nephilim are based on the Mesopotamian apkallus who were half divine and half human.
Abstract
In the article, it is argued that the origin of Watchers derives from the Mesopotamianmythology of the antediluvian sages (apkallus). More precisely, it is proposed that themythology of Watchers and their sons the giants derived from inverted versions ofvarious Mesopotamian myths and beliefs about apkallus. On some layers of Meso- potamian mythology and ritual practices, the sages were already regarded as danger-ous and potentially malicious creatures, upon which the Jewish authors could buildtheir parody. Among other associations, the apkallus had strong ties to Mesopotamiandemonology, and they were occasionally counted as evil beings, capable of witch-craft. This shows that the wickedness of antediluvian teachers of humankind in Jewishsources was not wholly an inversion of the Mesopotamian traditions by Jewish scholars, but was partly taken from already existing trends in Mesopotamian demonology.
Additionally, both Peter and Jude said that it was angels who were involved (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6). And both Peter and Jude most likely were informed by 1 Enoch. A very important point is that Peter said that the angels who were involved were imprisoned in Tartarus. And in Greek mythology Zeus imprisoned the Titans in Tartarus. The Titans were the children of the primordial deities.
The anti-supernaturalistic presuppositions of modern man not withstanding, the writers of the Bible lived in a culture that believed in angels, both fallen and elect, and in demons. To deny the supernatural element in Genesis 6:2-4 is to disregard the time and culture of the Biblical writers.
I understand you go by what they believed or taught, but the question is: Is this reality?
I understand you go by what they believed or taught, but the question is: Is this reality?
That question can be, and must be applied to God as well. Is the existence of God reality? If so, then why can't the existence of angels and demons also be a reality? Mankind has always believed in the existence of gods and evil spirits.
So if the question is asked, 'How can we, living in the 21st century still believe that fallen angels and demons exist,' then logically the question must also be applied to the existence of God. If you, living in the 21st century can believe that God exists, whatever your concept of God may be, than why can you not also believe in the existence of angels, whether fallen or not, and of demons?
If God, angels, and demons exist, then they exist without reference to what century of human history we live in. Their existence or non-existence does not depend on how far we have progressed in terms of science.
The existence of God, angels, and demons cannot be proven by means of science, and not by philosophy. One must look to historical evidence for their existence. Has God, have angels, have demons interacted with man within human history? How reliable are the statements made by the Biblical writers? Were they truthful in their statements concerning Jesus, concerning angels, concerning demons? Did Jesus actually send demons into a herd of pigs which then rushed into the water and were drowned? Did Jesus really have a conversation with Satan, and with demons? Did the Biblical writers make it all, or some part of it up? If the Biblical writers were truthful about Jesus, would they have been any less truthful about angels and demons? In the end, your presuppositions will determine whether or not you accept as valid the statements of the Biblical writers regarding God, angels, and demons.
It is a fallacious argument to claim that we have advanced so far by the 21st century that we should no longer believe in the reality of God, angels, demons, and whatever other order of spiritual entities may exist. If a person can accept that the existence of God is a reality then there is no logical reason to deny the possibility of the existence of angels and demons.
Many people say they know that God exists because they feel it. But many people have also felt the existence of demons. Is one feeling less valid than the other?
I believe that they all exist, and I do so while also being scientifically minded.
So. . . is it a reality? You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
I read something yesterday that made the claim, that NOWHERE in the bible does it say that fallen angels are the same thing as 'demons'...just wondering if that is accurate or not.
Man is uniquely created in the image of God, and it is he (mankind) that has been given dominion over the earth at this present time. So, if you want to see the god of this world who exalts himself, you'd need to look at that of humanity, not an arbitrary entity called Satan. In the most normal sense a dog and cat cannot breed with one another, not in the conventional way, however. This is due to a number of factors the most obvious being they are two very different species ...but I can imagine that if they could, then they would probably be called (in religious terms - LMAO) a catalog? Or, a hybrid species! But be very careful when it comes to mixing and blending various fabrics. Especially, those of Paganism mythologies with that of reality. And remember, mules are sterile as their chromosomes don't match up well. In other words, mules can't have babies of their own. They are sterile because they can't make sperm or eggs. Do you believe that mythical creatures have sperm/eggs? If so, then they should be able to breed among themselves. What say you? Can your angels/demons breed among themselves? If not, then they cannot breed with humans either.
And, I highly doubt that angels are getting married in a place called heaven?
You are aware of course that the Jewish Publication Society's (JPS) Jewish Study Bible (Tanakh) translates Genesis 6:2 as
Gen. 6:2 the divine beings saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among them those that pleased them.
With the study note for Gen. 6:1-8
This brief narrative reads like a condensation of a much longer, well known myth. It records yet another breach of the all important boundary between the divine and the human (vv.1-2) and explains why human beings no longer attain to the great ages of their primordial forebears (v.3). It also explains the origins of the Nephilim (v.4), the preternatural giants that Israelites thought once dwelt in the land (Numbers 13:31-33).
The study note for that passage goes on to say that the flood narrative is a characteristically Israelite adaptation of a well-known and widespread Mesopotamian story.
The 'divine beings' that took human wives are in the second temple period Jewish book of 1 Enoch two hundred angels who descended from heaven to the summit of Mount Hermon where they made a pact to take human women as wives.
You're missing the point. The Bible has to be interpreted according to the culture of that day. To the early Hebrews, the ones who wrote the story, and the ones who believed in supernatural beings, the sons of God in Genesis 6:2-4 were angels. This is reflected in 2nd temple period Jewish literature such as 1 Enoch which states that there were two hundred angels who left heaven and descended to the top of Mt. Hermon where they made a pact to take human women for wives.
Now if you are interested, scholar Amar Annus argues the angels (watchers) and the Nephilim are based on the Mesopotamian apkallus who were half divine and half human.
Abstract
In the article, it is argued that the origin of Watchers derives from the Mesopotamianmythology of the antediluvian sages (apkallus). More precisely, it is proposed that themythology of Watchers and their sons the giants derived from inverted versions ofvarious Mesopotamian myths and beliefs about apkallus. On some layers of Meso- potamian mythology and ritual practices, the sages were already regarded as danger-ous and potentially malicious creatures, upon which the Jewish authors could buildtheir parody. Among other associations, the apkallus had strong ties to Mesopotamiandemonology, and they were occasionally counted as evil beings, capable of witch-craft. This shows that the wickedness of antediluvian teachers of humankind in Jewishsources was not wholly an inversion of the Mesopotamian traditions by Jewish scholars, but was partly taken from already existing trends in Mesopotamian demonology.
Additionally, both Peter and Jude said that it was angels who were involved (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6). And both Peter and Jude most likely were informed by 1 Enoch. A very important point is that Peter said that the angels who were involved were imprisoned in Tartarus. And in Greek mythology Zeus imprisoned the Titans in Tartarus. The Titans were the children of the primordial deities.
The anti-supernaturalistic presuppositions of modern man not withstanding, the writers of the Bible lived in a culture that believed in angels, both fallen and elect, and in demons. To deny the supernatural element in Genesis 6:2-4 is to disregard the time and culture of the Biblical writers.
That question can be, and must be applied to God as well. Is the existence of God reality? If so, then why can't the existence of angels and demons also be a reality? Mankind has always believed in the existence of gods and evil spirits.
So if the question is asked, 'How can we, living in the 21st century still believe that fallen angels and demons exist,' then logically the question must also be applied to the existence of God. If you, living in the 21st century can believe that God exists, whatever your concept of God may be, than why can you not also believe in the existence of angels, whether fallen or not, and of demons?
If God, angels, and demons exist, then they exist without reference to what century of human history we live in. Their existence or non-existence does not depend on how far we have progressed in terms of science.
The existence of God, angels, and demons cannot be proven by means of science, and not by philosophy. One must look to historical evidence for their existence. Has God, have angels, have demons interacted with man within human history? How reliable are the statements made by the Biblical writers? Were they truthful in their statements concerning Jesus, concerning angels, concerning demons? Did Jesus actually send demons into a herd of pigs which then rushed into the water and were drowned? Did Jesus really have a conversation with Satan, and with demons? Did the Biblical writers make it all, or some part of it up? If the Biblical writers were truthful about Jesus, would they have been any less truthful about angels and demons? In the end, your presuppositions will determine whether or not you accept as valid the statements of the Biblical writers regarding God, angels, and demons.
It is a fallacious argument to claim that we have advanced so far by the 21st century that we should no longer believe in the reality of God, angels, demons, and whatever other order of spiritual entities may exist. If a person can accept that the existence of God is a reality then there is no logical reason to deny the possibility of the existence of angels and demons.
Many people say they know that God exists because they feel it. But many people have also felt the existence of demons. Is one feeling less valid than the other?
I believe that they all exist, and I do so while also being scientifically minded.
So. . . is it a reality? You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
I have some things to do that I cannot postpone, so will be back to give an answer to some of the questions you have put forth, hopefully sooner than later. However, I will leave you with a question to ponder: Why can you not have one without the other? In addition, because this is a Christian forum, I will not deny the existence of there being a God, or an intelligent design to all that exists. I actually believe there is, but do not see the necessity that something has to be good or evil based upon a perception that you cannot have one without the other. And, probably will have to avoid the entire evolution process, as that appears to be something that is not open to debate on the forum as well.
BUT SCIENTISM SAYS THERE ARE INTERDIMENSIONAL TRAVELERS.
BUT REFUSE TO CALL THEM DEMONS OR FALLEN ANGELS OR EVEN ANGELS.
THEY CALL THEM " ALIENS", MAYBE TO MAKE THEMSELVES SOUNDS MORE "SCIENTIFIC" AND "INTELLECTUAL". ONLY BECAUSE THEIR STANCE IS SO ANTI-RELIGION AND ANTICHRIST AND ANTI-THIESTS .
AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THEY WOUDL RATHER KILL THEMSELVES THAN TO ADMIT THAT THEY JUST MIGHT BE FALLEN ANGELS..
I BELIEVE THE FALLEN ANGELS ARE THE
"ALIENS" AND
THAT DEMONS.. ARE THE AUTHORITIES THAT YOUR LIFE ITSELF HAS CREATED..
WHEN EVER I SAW IN PRAYER A "DEMON" THEY WERE LIKE LITTLE PUSS/POISON BAGS THAT FEED THE MIND WITH THEIR POISON..
BUT THE FALLEN SURE ARE HUMANOID-ISH LIKE..
BUT THAT IS ONLY WHAT I SAW IN PRAYER AND That may be MORE SYMBOLIC TO WHAT HE NEEDED ME TO KNOW ABOUT THAT SITUATION.. one I saw had giant ears and was listening at the door of a house to our plans..AND OTHER THINS LIKE THAT..
AND WHEN I SAW WHERE A PERSON HAD BEEN ATTACKED ( assumed to be by the evil one , see verse below.. ) .. IT WAS A ARROW LEFT IN THE PERSON ( LIKE THEIR BACK OR LEFT IN AN ORGAN OR IN THEIR HEART... CHEST .. HEAD, feet .. ETC.. .. THAT ARROW WAS EITHER FLAMING AND ON FIRE AS IF THE ATTACK HAD JUST HAPPENED.. OR IT WAS SMOKING LIKE THE ATTACK WAS NOT LONG AGO , LIKE MAYBE ONE OR TWO YEARS... OR IT WAS COLD AND NOT SMOKING.. LIKE IT HAD HAPPENED MANY YEARS BEFORE. SO THAT WAS JUST INFORMATION OR DISCERNMENT ABOUT WHEN IT HAPPENED..
and NOT WHY IT HAPPENED except ...
IT WAS GIVEN THAT WAY TO them to REVEAL WHERE THEIR ARMOR WAS LACKING AND where they were not covered.. WHAT The LORD WANTED THEM TO PRAY ABOUT AND TO WORK ON WITH HIM AND HIS SPIRIT.
symbolically/ spiritually , I would remove the arrow and ask for healing in those places.
oh yes if the arrows were in the front they were trying to take on the enemy by themselves and they were to seek help more often.. if the arrows were in their back it is because they were running from something the Lord, the Lord wanted them to take head-on with him and with their whole armor on.
then I would give them this verse if The spirit of God showed me that anyone had arrows in them. it meant they vulnerable and were losing a battle...and we were to keep praying for them to gain better armor and discernment in the spirit.
Eph 6:13
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14
Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
Eph 6:15
and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
Eph 6:16
[fn]in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17
And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Eph 6:18
¶
[fn]With all prayer and petition [fn]pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, [fn]be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
WHEN "A SPIRIT GO OUT OF A MAN" WERE DID THAT " SPIRIT " COME FROM IN THAT VERSE? it says "THE HOUSE "( the house from which I came) ... THAT HOUSE THAT THAT MAN BUILT IN HIS OWN SOUL THAT ARE ALL THE THINGS HE "BELIEVES" THAT ARE NOT WHAT GOD BELIEVES.
the puss bag things are the same colors as all the things when I seeN that are "spiritual" in nature.. they were blue or greenish lights..and bags like fuming bags of poison. I THINK THOSE DEMONS..
ALL I KNOW FOR SURE IS THOSE "ALIENS"/ interdimensional WERE NOT TRYING TO MAKE BODIES FOR NO REASON..
and there is also little poisonous entities with long tentacles that pump poison into a mind and heart and body if it is trying to kill him.... he didn't gain the right to kill for no reason though. one is the fallen.
the other is powers and authorities, like curses and unforgiveness etc...
THE alien/ humanoid-like.. so far I haven't seen one glow!
not like it is spiritual only being or power.... like the hands / balloons of puss and poison with long tentacles like fingernails sort of .. in a mans brain. I believe those are powers the man souls created them himself.. they all MAY BE "ALIEN" TO THE SIGHT OF MEN... AND PEOPLE, but that is what the Lord says we are really fighting is the powers.. I think the powers we created withouR own mouth and heart.... IF THAT IS ACTUAL OR IF THAT IS THE RESULTS OF THE AUTHORITY THAT "DEMON" HAS BEEN GIVEN, I DO NOT KNOW.
SO THE PEOPLE ARE NOT ALIEN TO THOSE FALLEN ENTITIES.
yes sure THE humanoids ARE INTERDIMENSIONAL TRAVELERS.
which means someone is finally going to have to admit that there is other dimensions, then there are other places for God and his kingdom to exist . AS WELL AS HELL AND DEATH TO HOLD OTHERS IN,.,..
.. BUT "travelers" ..THOSE are more humanoid and so far in prayer I have never seen one glow...... those could most definitely be the fallen entities LIKE ANGELS ..
those are not little spiritual poison bags with the long knife-like fingernails or tentacles with sharp edges.. to Peirce the mind AND ORGANS..... pumping poison into a man or INTO THE pigs mind.
so which one is what I think Jesus calls "demons" ? I don't know . but look at what all that poison did to the herd of pigs minds!
to that is the only thing that he shows me in prayer that make sense. as demons..
BUT who of them talk back to him?
SO I think the POISON bags are ruled over in hell by the rulers of darkness, now those might be demons WHICH SPEAK........once your sins connect you to" death and hell " the authorities of the ( BAG/POISON ) powers in darkness and in hell itself.... maybe those are what are speaking back to HIM.
but I am pretty sure the little bags do not speak.. but they must be connected SURELY to other authorities over?/UNDER ?
IN LOWER AND OR DARKER PLACES.
OUR SALVATION OR DESTRUCTION is all about authority, LEGAL AND BINDING AUTHORITIES.
WHERE IS YOUR LEGAL AUTHORITY, TO SPEAK ? OR EVEN EXIST..WHERE IS IT COMING FROM?
SO I think there is more than just one entity in all this stuff that humanity must contend with.
and so that why we need a body of believers who has the Lord real spiritual discernment around each of his children .... from the throne room of God. to help us where we are weak and where we are still growing in him.. we need others to have our back..
I WILL POST THE SCRIPTURE
Eph 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Really cool if that were true about donkeys, I would steal it and make it mine..... Never heard that before but I am willing to buy, dang, might even send Jewade the most outragous Christmas present if true, get him the only Christmas Sweater he will ever need to win any Christmas sweater contest, my own design, something so stuck on stupid you cant look away, hypnotizing and yet so basic........I do love to yarn.
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