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There is. His flesh (the old and natural man of the soul, 1Co 2:14) was/is already condemned (Joh 3:18) and will not see life (Joh 3:36). And not only, but that flesh of his will be cast out of his soul in final judgement, and by fire (Mat 7:21-23, Mat 25:41, Rev 20:11-15, Rev 22:15, and every other scripture that you would like to include here).
And justice has been served. Jesus hung on the cross for Hitler (Rom 5:6-9), died for Hitler (2Co 5:14, 1Pe 3:18) and rose from the grave for Hitler (Rom 4:25), and in so doing, thereby: God forgave Hitler, justified Hitler and reconciled Hitler to Himself (2Co 5:19). What more justice do you need?
The question now becomes: Will Hitler's soul receive Christ's work on his behalf?: And, the answer is: Yes. (Php 2:10-11, paired with Isa 45:23). Make no mistake, neither life nor death can separate Hitler, nor anyone else, from God's love (Rom 8:38-39) for whom Christ died (2Co 5:14). Hitler will enter the Kingdom of God. And he'll do so by the mercy of God in Christ.
UR is so clear and glorious in my spirit that I can't even express it. I try, but I can't. And if I could, I'm not sure Jesus would allow me. There are words not lawful for a man to utter (2Co 12:4). I believe UR may be one of those things.
JJ funny how it says not LAWFUL for a man to utter. However via the Holy Spirit the utterance is loud and clear. Those under the law cannot receive it, only those on whom the law has no power can.
It's the flesh that does not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul is not speaking of the spirit of the soul, but the flesh.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Pe_4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Christ was not sent to save the flesh, but rather to save that which was lost (Luk 19:10). The soul (sans flesh). The image of God, in man.
JJ they seem to no nothing of the old man and inner man so will simply reject anything they have no knowledge of.
LOL you just blundered into something for if the devouring fire is eternal torment then the righteous are also in eternal torment and you would have seen this if you had of read the next verse. the question asked in Is.33:14 is answered in Isa.33:15
The question is..
Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15
He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
thus the devouring fire/everlasting burnings are speaking of the divine fire of God that corrects humanity by devouring the old man nature in each of us.
What an imagination you have pneuma!
The devouring fire is always represented as the wrath and fury of God, not a correction, that is another UR LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is judgement on sin!!
Jer. 7:20
"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Jer. 4:4
"Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, lest My fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Isa. 30:30
"And the Lord shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones."
Isa. 33:14
"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Ezek. 21:31
"And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, [and] skilful to destroy.
There are dozens and dozens of these scriptures, how many do you need?
And thank you, glad to hear it, even if we each appear to get a slightly different 'message' from such a graphic example of our 'significance'?!
BTW, might not be the right 'place', but if I may ask a somewhat naive question... how does becoming a 'sinner' help folks' lives (not in terms of scripture, but 'practically-speaking')? Like, why does one even have to be a self-acknowledged 'sinner', when surely there must be less 'groveling' ways of embracing Divinity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose2Luv
Mateo45: We do not become a sinner; we come into this world with broken in our being. We do wrong (sin), because it is in our natural makeup to do so. The Scripture declares this terrible condition is not by choice, "not willingly", but "by reason of Him" who made it so. In short, we start busted and broken from day one progressing to prove what we are by nature.
I have zero hesitation in declaring our God surpasses what we know and understand of Him. He goes beyond the natural man into where He dwells and thinks. I have zero hesitation telling you I do not understand our God, not in the slightest degree. What I do surely know is that He does all things well in every degree.
“Life is not a straight line leading from one blessing to the next and then finally to heaven. Life is a winding and troubled road. Switchback after switchback. And the point of biblical stories like Joseph and Job and Esther and Ruth is to help us feel in our bones (not just know in our heads) that God is for us in all these strange turns. God is not just showing up after the trouble and cleaning it up. He is plotting the course and managing the troubles with far-reaching purposes for our good and for the glory of Jesus Christ.” ~ John Piper
Believing in Universalism is surely not, the only way to salvation, if it be true.
So, why preach it?
There is no point to even preaching the gospel; because all will be saved anyway!
Why preach the gospel at all?
Without a doubt this is one of the most frequent question asked of me, everywhere I post I come across this question.
Here is my answer to this question
For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because one believes Jesus died for them. Believing is only the starting point on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death, but saved by His life.
All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact. If someone does not believe Jesus died for then simply does not change the fact that He did.
So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled, but not all men are yet saved from sin and death.
Therefore Jesus send us out in order to proclaim His salvation by His LIFE.
His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved.
Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed , and we are to do this so that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have. Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His LIFE.
When we witness about that which Jesus done, we are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His death, this fact breathes hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after people become aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again for us.
So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE, so as He died for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE.
If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men also? Can we really separate His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed up of LIFE?
God bless
I wrote this in response to a lady who asked the question if all are saved why preach the gospel at all?
After reading my answer this was her reply back to me.
Dear Pneuma,
I totally agree with your description of the gospel. Yes, we are not only dead in Christ but now alive in Christ, praise God. You are right, Christ's death cannot be separated from His resurrection. It was His resurrection that the disciples preached, you are right. It is His resurrection that is the hope for all mankind. The full gospel is the death and resurrection. I agree He died for all, all are reconciled through His death and all are given life through His resurrection, out of death, as you say. I can't however, get past the point of faith (which is given to us by God in His grace anyway, all have the capacity to believe, or reject) and personal response to accepting this truth for ourselves, as revealed by the Spirit to us. I heard John Bevere give a definition of the word 'believe' in as meaning 'to follow'. Believing (in our terms) is first yes, and then taking up our cross daily and living following Christ, I agree is the full walk of salvation. Again, we can only do any of this by God's grace through faith hey.
I feel the Spirit of God on what you have written and thank you.
Unfortunately, in order to promote the UR point of view, it should be clear that some here have promoted a kind of smorgasborg religion; in which it becomes necessary to pick and choose what scriptures you include in the realm of what we call inspired.
And that is not Christianity.
Real Christianity is fundamentalism; in which you take the whole of the Bible to be the word of God and adhere to it come what may.
It may seem to be too narrow of a path for some; nevertheless Jesus said, in Matthew 7:13-14, that the way to life is in fact narrow and there are few who find it; that the way to destruction is broad and there are many who seek to enter in by it.
Which would indicate to me that there is a large section of people who are not going to enter into life; since they have sought to enter in through the broad path that leads to destruction.
I really do think that the UR point of view smacks of this broad path. You don't have to enter in through the narrow gate, is the implication of UR; all will eventually enter in; so just enter in through this broad path which is said by UR to lead to life.
Nevertheless there are many, according to holy scripture, who do not find that narrow path that leads to life.
fundys still try and build tabernacles to Moses and Elijah but God said this is my beloved son HEAR HIM.
Why preach it? The preaching is not for agnostics or atheists, it is for you and other misguided souls who blaspheme the very nature of God. It is you who is treading on thin ice. Be careful what you wish for, an unmerciful and spiteful God (it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God) <Hebrews 10:31
I have read hundreds , thousands of personal NDEs...once in awhile, rare actually, the fire and brimstone is real (some sort of mental anguish)...but these rarities usually happen to sociopaths, murderers, rapists and ironically, fundamentalists, the fire and brimstone fundies actually. But be of good cheer , the torment is not eternal, when lesson is learned, the tormented are lifted from the abyss. You do it to yourself, but God rescues.
(I am not grouping christians with these other groups, but their beliefs get them into this )
One of the fundamental problems with the two of these misguided blasphemers is their mouth is always flapping with ears that are closed to anything outside of their dismal world.
The devouring fire is always represented as the wrath and fury of God, not a correction, that is another UR LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is judgement on sin!!
Jer. 7:20
"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Jer. 4:4
"Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, lest My fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Isa. 30:30
"And the Lord shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones."
Isa. 33:14
"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Ezek. 21:31
"And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, [and] skilful to destroy.
There are dozens and dozens of these scriptures, how many do you need?
You have no idea what the wrath of God is charlie thus you cannot understand what those scriptures are speaking of. the wrath of God is the law and until you realize that you will be forever lost in understanding the scriptures.
You have no idea what the wrath of God is charlie thus you cannot understand what those scriptures are speaking of. the wrath of God is the law and until you realize that you will be forever lost in understanding the scriptures.
Typical response from the UR when called out!
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But be of good cheer , the torment is not eternal, when lesson is learned, the tormented are lifted from the abyss. You do it to yourself, but God rescues.
