Septuagint vs Masoretic Texts (messages, faith, service, mission)

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by tripplelogicality

.

As I have proven many times

The SEPTUAGINT is nothing more than a Post Christ Tweak project - that was really not even completed until after the 12 th century.

YOU WILL EVEN NOT FIND A DATE NOR A TIME THAT GIVES A DATE TO WHEN THE SEPTUAGINT WAS RECONSTRUCTED.

Trinitarians do not have this date - 99.9 % of Trinitarians today have no idea when the Septuagint was reconstructed.

SEPTUAGINT is nothing more than a Post Christ Trinitarian Twitch that was really not even completed as a completion - until some remote time after the 12 th century

THIS IS THE FACT.

You will never provide a date - dating the time when the Septuagint was reconstructed.
Because it is better to hide the date - than to admit that The Pre Christ Septuagint fragments are less than 1 % of the entire Bible.



Codex - ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS

THIS IS EXACLTY WHAT THE SEPTUAGINT IS -

WHEN YOU READ A MODERN TRINITARIAN TRANSLATION THAT USES THESE CODEXES

THEY WILL LEAVE A FOOTNOTE SAYING “ SOME SEPTUAGINT VERSIONS SAY.... “

Because they use the ROMAN CATHOLIC and THE GREEK ORTHODOX CATHOLIC MANUSCRIPTS.

Codexes - ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS.



Yes you are right - ALEXANDRINUS is believed or fantasized to have been a GREEK CATHOLIC PRODUCTION’

BUT THEY ALL - ARE THE SAME INCOMPLETE CONTRADICTING SET OF CATHOLIC MANUSCRIPTS .

WHEN MODERN TRINITARIANS REJECT THE ORIGINAL HEBREW AND USE THE SEPTUAGINT INSTEAD.

They leave their special footnote saying = “ SOME SEPTUAGINT VERSIONS SAY.... “

Meaning = ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS.

BECAUSE THERE NEVER WERE ANY - SEPTUAGINT VERSIONS

The Pre Christ Septuagint fragments are less than 1 % of the entire O.T

THERE NEVER WERE ANY - SEPTUAGINT MANUSCRIPTS
THIS IS UNTRUTHFUL.

less than 1 % of crumbled, scattered, abandoned and trashed and discarded waste- this is all the proof you have ?



ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS ARE CONTEMPORARIES OF ONE ANOTHER, THEY ALL REPRESENT THE SAME PERVERSION - THE SAME INCOMPLETE FAKE WORKS OF GREEK ORTHODOX AND ROMAN CATHOLIC PRODUCTIONS.


Codex Vaticanus TODAY - is in the Vatican,

the Roman Catholic church has worked on this manuscript for many centuries performing MANTENANCE, PROTECTION AND STORAGE - in the Vatican Library,

Codex Vaticanus has been kept IN THE VATICAN LIBRARY (founded by Pope Nicholas V in 1448) for as long as it has been known, appearing in the library’s earliest catalog of 1475 (with shelf number 1209), and in the 1481 catalog. In a catalog from 1481.

Codex Alexandrinus was written a generation after - codices Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.


Codex Alexandrinus also represents the same exact text of the family type - the same type of manuscripts made use of by ROMAN CATHOLIC Origen

No one even truly knows where these manuscripts were written - all they do is imagine, fantasize and guess

Because Jerome stated that he had no complete Greek Old Testament - this is why he used the Hebrew Original Manuscripts.


Jerome did not even have a single fragment of the - Pre Christ Septuagint, these fragments were not even invented until hundreds of years after Jerome and then were redacted and framed back on the Septuagint, RUMOR AND FANTASY.

I have proven already in my previous posts that the SEPTUAGINT is nothing more than what modern Trinitarian Translations are saying

= “ SOME SEPTUAGINT VERSIONS SAY.... “

There is no SEPTUAGINT - there never was.

There is no completed and agreeing - ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS.

There never was and never will be.

= “ SOME SEPTUAGINT VERSIONS SAY.... “

And - = “ SOME SEPTUAGINT VERSIONS DO NOT SAY.... “

This is the = “ SEPTUAGINT - so.... which Septuagint version is correct. ?

No one knows and no one cares - let's just make it up and make a new version of the Bible.

There is not even a completed publicized date telling when the SEPTUAGINT was reconstructed -it is unavailable to the public,

Probably in the 12 th to 16 th century - this is when we begin to finally see the SEPTUAGINT Chapters and partial books - suddenly appearing in completed books for sale.

just like Roman Catholics love their Aprophica

I don't know what your problem is, but you haven't proven anything to anyone. We have manuscript fragments of the Septuagint that predate the time of Jesus. That means that the Septuagint existed before the time of Jesus. The fact that Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint ought to tell you something. You're just making a fool out of yourself which you will apparently continue to do.

[tripplelogicality]

.

THIS WILL BE MY FINAL POST FOR A WHILE.

I do not have difficulty understand what you are explaining, I understand completely.
There is absolutely no problem here.

Nevertheless, I can not comprehend why you yourself, as the honest and intelligent, and wonderful person that you are, why it would be a problem or difficult to accept

that before Yahashua, The Anointing, there is no evidence of these existing Old Testament Septuagint " quotes "

what I mean is - not only - the Septuagint " quotes " found the New Testament did not exist yet as the N. T. did not exist before Christ.

and also there are no Septuagint fragments or manuscripts before Christ that have any of the New Testament " quotes "

The very tiny amount of fragments found acclaimed and suggested to be B. C. Septuagint, these are not even enough to complete even a single completed page .

Do you understand what i am trying to respectfully say ? - this is fact. So in order to prove that there were all of these Septuagint type " quotes " that correlated with the N. T. - this proof would have to exist before the N. T was written.


And nothing like this exists, even on a small scale - nothing is there.

The ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS codexes were not even existing even 300 years after Christ in any capacity for Jerome to use them to translate the Vulgate

ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS are what is being used to build the body of the Septuagint - for it's

RECONSTRUCTION

It had to be reconstructed { Probably in the 16 th Century } from all of the incomplete, scattered projects of the ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS which were projects that Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholics in Egypt and Rome were working to create as an O.T Greek Translation.

Even the three projects ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS - none of these are completed works

the Septuagint had to be reconstructed by relying upon what was in the layout and FORMAT of the diagram in the Masoretic Text

The Septuagint was reconstructed sometime after the 16 th century when the Greek and Roman Catholic based ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS projects finally had enough volume and body to reinvent another version of the O.T.

A PART of the Greek OLD TESTAMENT was RECONSTRUCTED called the "Constantinople Pentateuch" RECONSTRUCTED - in Constantinople in 1547 - this was Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.



Before this there was no completed Greek Translation of the O .T.

And then A COMPLETED translation of the Old Testaments was RECONSTRUCTED by a man named Neofytos Vamvas in 1850. Vamvas was dean and a professor of the University of Athens.
this version is unavailable - WE KNOW WHY - because it was only a rough draft and not a translation to transmit and duplicate.

So in reality - ANY GREEK OLD TESTAMENT was was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.

and we have no idea what what is called the the SEPTUAGINT was RECONSTRUCTED


This is a pattern with Trinitarians - Trinitarians did not translate a completed Bible into a modern language until 1582 this was the Catholic Douay Rheims

Trinitarians are content to wait for nearly 2000 years to translate ANY BIBLE into a modern
language

so,,,, anything even similar to the SEPTUAGINT was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.


I RESPECTFULLY, LOVINGLY and HUMBLY CHALLENGE ANY TRINITARIAN TO PROVE OTHERWISE

Please do not ask me to accept Trinitarian fantasy and faith as evidence

I am certain that after another 500 years Trinitarians will finally invent a date for the SEPTUAGINT's reconstruction.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by tripplelogicality

.

THIS WILL BE MY FINAL POST FOR A WHILE.

I do not have difficulty understand what you are explaining, I understand completely.
There is absolutely no problem here.

Nevertheless, I can not comprehend why you yourself, as the honest and intelligent, and wonderful person that you are, why it would be a problem or difficult to accept

that before Yahashua, The Anointing, there is no evidence of these existing Old Testament Septuagint " quotes "

what I mean is - not only - the Septuagint " quotes " found the New Testament did not exist yet as the N. T. did not exist before Christ.

and also there are no Septuagint fragments or manuscripts before Christ that have any of the New Testament " quotes "

The very tiny amount of fragments found acclaimed and suggested to be B. C. Septuagint, these are not even enough to complete even a single completed page .

Do you understand what i am trying to respectfully say ? - this is fact. So in order to prove that there were all of these Septuagint type " quotes " that correlated with the N. T. - this proof would have to exist before the N. T was written.


And nothing like this exists, even on a small scale - nothing is there.

The ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS codexes were not even existing even 300 years after Christ in any capacity for Jerome to use them to translate the Vulgate

ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS are what is being used to build the body of the Septuagint - for it's

RECONSTRUCTION

It had to be reconstructed { Probably in the 16 th Century } from all of the incomplete, scattered projects of the ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS which were projects that Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholics in Egypt and Rome were working to create as an O.T Greek Translation.

Even the three projects ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS - none of these are completed works

the Septuagint had to be reconstructed by relying upon what was in the layout and FORMAT of the diagram in the Masoretic Text

The Septuagint was reconstructed sometime after the 16 th century when the Greek and Roman Catholic based ALEXANDRINUS - SINAITICUS AND - VATICANUS projects finally had enough volume and body to reinvent another version of the O.T.

A PART of the Greek OLD TESTAMENT was RECONSTRUCTED called the "Constantinople Pentateuch" RECONSTRUCTED - in Constantinople in 1547 - this was Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.



Before this there was no completed Greek Translation of the O .T.

And then A COMPLETED translation of the Old Testaments was RECONSTRUCTED by a man named Neofytos Vamvas in 1850. Vamvas was dean and a professor of the University of Athens.

So in reality - the SEPTUAGINT was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.


This is a pattern with Trinitarians - Trinitarians did not translate a completed Bible into a modern language until 1582 this was the Catholic Douay Rheims

Trinitarians are content to wait for nearly 2000 years to translate ANY BIBLE into a modern
language

the SEPTUAGINT was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.


I RESPECTFULLY, LOVINGLY and HUMBLY CHALLENGE ANY TRINITARIAN TO PROVE OTHERWISE

Please do not ask me to accept Trinitarian fantasy and faith as evidence

Scholarship refutes your claims that there was no Septuagint before the time of Christ. Period.

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by tripplelogicality

.

THIS WILL BE MY FINAL POST FOR A WHILE.

<snip>


This is a pattern with Trinitarians - Trinitarians did not translate a completed Bible into a modern language until 1582 this was the Catholic Douay Rheims

Trinitarians are content to wait for nearly 2000 years to translate ANY BIBLE into a modern
language

so,,,, anything even similar to the SEPTUAGINT was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.


I RESPECTFULLY, LOVINGLY and HUMBLY CHALLENGE ANY TRINITARIAN TO PROVE OTHERWISE

Please do not ask me to accept Trinitarian fantasy and faith as evidence

I am certain that after another 500 years Trinitarians will finally invent a date for the SEPTUAGINT's reconstruction.

Why are you repeatedly using the term "trinitarian" as if it was something bad?

The vast majority of Christians accept the doctrine of the Trinity, and it makes very little difference in everyday discussions about the Christian faith.

The only people that seem to harp on this idea are the Jehovah's Witnesses, although I can't understand why they think it is so important.

[tripplelogicality]

I


Thank you for responding to my post.

I was planning to wait for a good amount of time and have a chance to learn more about what others believe concerning their many different Trinitarian Translations

I will do my best to answer your direct question about why I continually mention the Trinitarian Civilisation - the Trinitarian Society and their Trinitarian Military

and Trinitarian Leaders and Kings and Queens

The Roman Catholic Trinitarian Military and Governments - were all Trinitarians that controlled Spain, France, Italy, and most of Germany and most all of Europe for nearly 2000 years - until 1849

The Protestants Trinitarian Military and Governments - were all Trinitarians that later controlled England, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Latvia, Estonia and Iceland.

Here is a list of historical Trinitarian Kings of Europe who, most of them, spent their entire life making war and brutally persecuting others.

Click Here - Complete List of the Holy Roman Emperors


For example, William Tyndale worked on his attempt to translate the Bible in GERMANY where it was extremely dangerous. In Trinitarian Germany, Tyndale was always on the run, changing locations to remain safe from secret Trinitarian agents found him in Antwerp Germany.

Tyndale received a death sentence. and was burned at the stake in 1536, near Brussels.

Over half a Million people in Europe who did not convert to Trinitarian faith were burned alive, killed or tortured to death by - Trinitarians for being accused of witchcraft.

The Trinitarian community has violently spread its religious doctrines and ideologies about the Bible like a violent mob........................


...... still persecuting and threatening and harming and torturing people who disagree with their Trinitarian and other Protestant and Roman Catholic faiths - even up to nearly 100 years after the KJV and still persecuting and driving other religions and denominations from England -


Many thousands of religious people were enslaved, imprisoned and convicted by the trinitarian Kings and their civil authorities in all of Trinitarian Europe..

Non – Trinitarians and Non – Conformists could expect no mercy and were executed as heretics and driven expelled from The Trinitarian Lawmakers of all Trinitarian Kingdoms.


The Trinitarians Of England had not broken away from the Trinitarian Roman Catholic Church no more than 80 years until the time that they produced their Trinitarian KJV Bible Translation.

This is just one single generation that had passed from the time that England broke away from the Catholic Church - until the time the KJV was produced.

This is why when you compare the Catholic Douay Rheims of 1582 and the KJV of 1611 side by side
comparing these two Translations - you can not tell the difference between the tho two.

because the JKV is nothing more than a nearly exact duplicate copy - cat of the Catholic Churches Translation.

For example is - the Hebrew word - פִּלֶגֶשׁ - pîyleyesh / - in the Old testament.

this is the Hebrew word that the Trinitarians have translated as the LATIN Italian / Canaanite word CONCUBINE “

פִּלֶגֶשׁ - pîyleyesh / pile - yesh is the combination of the two separate words of combining “ pîyle “ and - “ yhesh “ meaning - - a pîylegesh. when the Hebrews pronounced the word - “ pîyle yesh “ they did not see the LATIN Italian / Canaanite word CONCUBINE “

This Hebrew word - in definition - in the Hebrew Language - has nothing to do with the LATIN Italian / Canaanite word CONCUBINE “

Many Trinitarian look at the word - concubine “ concu - bine “ and they have no idea or clue what this word really means. the Trinitarian translators refused to translate this word pîyleyesh / pile yesh, into English. they simply left the word in - Italian / Latin - and copied the Latin word straight over into the English translation throughout all Bibles.

the Latin concubine, means “ just to have sex together “ - “ to lie together “ in Latin the word “ cubare “ means = to lay .

to the Trinitarians, a concubine - simply means that an event has occurred where - a man and a woman simply just lay down and have a sexual romp, or they frolic about “ laying down together and have a sexual adventure somewhere and just simply satisfy a sexual lust – or have a sexual encounter. - that’s it!

and this is the way the Trinitarians went about translating most of the meanings of words in the bible when they came upon situations that they did not like. But to the Hebrews serving their god, they see this word in the way that their Hebrew language is structured. the word “ פִּלֶגֶשׁ - pîyleyesh / pile yesh “ is the combination of two words “ pîyle and yesh.

פָּלָא - pil'îy - meaning = remarkable, amazing - superb and wonderful.
and yesh from גְּשׁוּר “ - yeshûr - yhesh-oor' - meaning = to join, connect or bridge or combine together. =

and - אִשָּׁה - 'ishshâh = ish-shaw' also means a wife - in Hebrew

this word - פָּלִיא - pil'îy - meaning = remarkable, amazing - superb and wonderful

this is what the Hebrews imagined and thought when they used the word “ - pîyleyesh / pile yesh “ as another new wife. they thought of it as meaning = a remarkable, great and wonderful unification, joining or bridging together a wonderful connection to their family.

not just simply laying down on a bed or a straw mat out back behind the church or the barn and opening your trousers and spending time with someone for a few moments and then getting up, and that’s the end of the Trinitarian story about Abraham and Jacob and the prophets and priests and godly men of Israel.

this is what Trinitarians did, this is how the Trinitarian and their diseased society lived their lives and they projected their marriage system onto the Jews when they translated their Hebrew scriptures. The Trinitarians were so filled with diseases and germs and viruses - that they literally nearly wiped out every single native American Indian Tribe.

When the Trinitarians arrived to North and South America , carrying germs - the native American Indians had never experienced smallpox, measles, or flu before, and an estimated 90% of Native Americans were killed by the germs and diseases and filth of the Trinitarians.

in the bible, we see early on in Jewish history exactly what adding multiple, plural wives into a family unit. intended for godly relationships, growth, children, blessings and inheritance of a family unit that stays together for a lifetime. the word “ פִּילֶגֶשׁ - pîyleyesh / pile yesh “ as another new wife is meant as a wonderful bridging or joining in union into the family. the bible describes in detail as to what this word and relationship means.

the word concubine is an Italian / Canaanite word for an abused prostitute - living in sexual slavery and has nothing to do with the actual meaning of the literal Hebrew word in the manuscripts - that describes adding a new wife into a family of god. the Trinitarians rejected the Hebrew word and its meaning and substituted it for the Latin word in their English translation. meaning = as laying with someone as in loosely sexual encounter, like a prostitute or a sexual slave on the side. they deleted the Hebrew word and the meaning, as they have done in many, many other passages and they left the word as a Latin word for adultery, fornication, and evil perversity.

let’s take a look at the Hebrew word - pile yesh .

this Hebrew word " pîyleyesh / pile yesh - is a combination of two words. pal – e or pil – a __ which in Hebrew literally means - wonderful: - a great accomplishment - marvelous. this word means to be great or to make wonderful - something that is amazing and great and wondrous.

this Hebrew word - pal – e or pil - a - is used 71 total times in the old testament.

here are some examples of exactly how this word is used in the bible.

pîyleyesh - פִּילֶגֶשׁ - the Hebrew word - pîyleyesh - פִּילֶגֶשׁ is the word that Trinitarians have as the Latin word for concubine in all of the old testament. anytime you see the word CONCUBINE in the Trinitarian Translation - this is the Hebrew word pîyleyesh - פִּילֶגֶשׁ

the combination of two words “ pal – e and yesh “ - let’s take a look at the first word “ pal – e _ פָּלָא

psa_40:5 many, o lord my god, are thy “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works
2ch_2:9 the house which i am about to build shall be “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “ great.
job_42:3 the things that are too “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “ for me.
2sa 1:26 thy love to me was “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “
1ch 16:9 sing unto him, speak of all his “ wondrous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works.
1ch 16:12 remember his “ marvelous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works - his wonders.
job 5:9 and 10 great things and “ marvelous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ things without number:
job 37:5 god thundereth “ marvelous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ / wondrously with his voice
job 37:14 stand still, and consider the “ wondrous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works of god.
psa 9:1 oh lord i will shew forth all thy “ “ marvelous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works.
psa 31:21 the lord: hath shewed me his “ marvelous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ kindness.
psa 40:5 many, o lord my god, are thy “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works
psa 71:17 o god, i have declared thy “ wondrous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works.
psa 72:18 blessed be the lord - who only doeth “ wondrous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ things.
psa 75:1 o god, thy name is “ wondrous / פָּלָא - pal – e “
psa 78:4 the lord, and his strength, and his “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works
psa 78:11 his “ wonders / פָּלָא - pal – e “ that he had shewed them.
psa 86:10 for thou art great, and doest “ wondrous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ things:
psa 96:3 declare - his “ wonders / פָּלָא - pal – e “ among all people.
psa 107:8 and for his “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “ works
psa 107:24 the works of the lord, and his “ wonders / פָּלָא - pal – e “
psa 118:23 the lord's doing; it is “ marvellous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ in our eyes.
pro 30:18 things that are too “ wonderful / פָּלָא - pal – e “ for me
joe 2:26 your god, has dealt “ wondrously / פָּלָא - pal – e “ with you
zec 8:6 if it be “ marvelous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ in the eyes of this people - should it also be “ marvelous / פָּלָא - pal – e “ in mine eyes?

this is what the Hebrew word means - this is what Trinitarians have changed and altered - into the word concubine. when a new additional wife was added to a man and his family - when he already currently has wives - when a man takes another wife - the word used for this new wife was the Hebrew word - pîyleyesh - פִּילֶגֶשׁ

the combining of two words - “ pal – e and yesh “

פִּלְאִי - pil'îy pâlîy' - pil-ee', paw-lee' = meaning remarkable: - marvelous and wonderful.

and the Hebrew word “ yesh “ means to balance individuals or human beings together or to connect together - to join or bridge or attach or unite together in a grouping or unification. . to band or join together - but in this context it means to band or join or bridge or connect or add or unite another wife into your family.

the Hebrew word yesh has multiple meanings - it can also mean an individual or a female person.

אִשָּׁה - ish-shaw' - meaning = a woman - a female or a wife, woman or a wife

And as we see with the Hebrew word אֶשֶׁךְ - 'yeshek / yeh'-shek = meaning to group or combine or connect or join together

the Hebrew word is not concubine - has not a single thing to do with the word concubine.

it simply means in Hebrew - in the Hebrew language a wonderful, amazing or great connection to an additional added wife in marriage.

Protestants refuse to translate this word from the Hebrew manuscripts - instead they Leave the word in Latin as the Roman Catholic Church has falsely translated it.

This is what Trinitarians have done with the Bible - they literally characterize the wives of Abraham and Jacob and the Prophets and Godly men of God as prostitutes and sex slaves and prostitutes.

Trinitarians have changed everything they dislike about the Bible - they literally rummage through the entire bible making thousands of edits, alterations, deletions and additions and change the original message of the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE and its ORIGINAL MESSAGE.

This is not even a drop in the bucket. I could fill thousands of pages proving exactly where and how Trinitarians have completely perverted and corrupted and altered the entire Bible.

this is the entire reason they love the Bible - expressly because of the perversity and alterations they have violently forced upon the original message.

When you ask a Trinitarian - what is the meaning of the Hebrew word " pîyleyesh - פִּילֶגֶשׁ "

They will never provide an answer based upon the Hebrew Language - they have no idea and even their Trinitarian James Strong Concordance demands that the word is unknown.

This is because they waited for nearly 2000 years just to update the Bible into a modern language, everything that existed 2000 years ago in Hebrew manuscript has been re - invented into a Trinitarian religious faith system based upon ignorance and re- invention.

this was intentional and deliberate.

2000 years is a very long time to wait, just to make a translation of a book - while murdering and torturing and burning alive millions upon millions of people who disagree with the progressing and changing Trinitarian Government world system.

THIS - is why I continually mention Trinitarians, because Trinitarians are directly the power that had complete control , complete dominion over all of Europe

Oneness Believers or Non - Trinitarians - and JEWS had no power or control over anything except a few moments of leading prayer while they wait to be tortured to death by their Trinitarian masters.

[mensaguy]

Nothing you said makes any sense in trying to understand why you keep using the word trinitarian, I thought it was a simple question. I have no idea why you rambled on and on about a multitude of topic unrelated to why you keep saying "trinitarians" instead of "people," or "Christians," or "Europeans."

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

Nothing you said makes any sense in trying to understand why you keep using the word trinitarian, I thought it was a simple question. I have no idea why you rambled on and on about a multitude of topic unrelated to why you keep saying "trinitarians" instead of "people," or "Christians," or "Europeans."

He’s had a few things wrong, for one, Antwerp is in Belgium...

[Meester-Chung]

William Lane Craig - Septuagint Vs. Masoretic Genealogies



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyDci18Ds9g


William Lane Craig says here that out of all the commentaries that he’s read (and he’s read quite a lot) he has never come across anyone who favors the genealogies in the Greek Septuagint over the Masoretic. They all seem to agree that the Septuagint’s numbers are altered and that the Hebrew Masoretic text is original.

That’s odd. I’m surprised that someone, as educated as William Lane Craig, has never read Josephus or Eusebius.

Josephus is a very prominent 1st-century Jewish historian, and when he lists off the genealogies in his work called “The Antiquities of the Jews” Josephus includes the extra 100 years on 6 generations, which agrees with the Septuagint.

Eusebius is a very prominent 4th-century church historian, and when he lists off the genealogies in his work called “The Chronicon” Eusebius favors the Septuagint, and includes the extra 650 years on the timeline. He condemns the Jewish Hebrew text, saying that it’s in error and that it is incorrect and unreliable. Eusebius says that the Septuagint is the most appropriate text to use due to being translated from old and accurate Hebrew copies.

But William Lane Craig says that he doesn’t know of anyone who favors the Septuagint’s chronology over the Hebrew Masoretic. Really? He’s never heard of Josephus or Eusebius?

Theophilus of Antioch and Julius Africanus were also early Christians from the 2nd and 3rd centuries, and they agree with the Septuagint too.

Never heard of them either?

It’s pretty tragic when our best scholars today don’t know what the early church taught, or what early Jewish historians taught.

[Heavenese]

So seeing this topic a couple of days ago, it had me very intrigued. After looking into it for a little bit, I see we need to used both translations. Yes, Paul and the other NT authors mostly referred to the Septuagint when speaking on OT passages. There also may be some things that were removed in the Masoretic to try and cover prophecies concerning Jesus. Yet at the same time, I see there are things in the Masoretic (verses I've compared between the two) that seem inspired by the Holy Spirit. Take for instance Isaiah 9:6...

Septuagint:

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

vs

Masoretic:

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


As we can see, the Septuagint only calls Jesus "Messenger of Great Counsel", whereas the Masoretic has more titles: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. This shows us a couple of things. Either the Masoretes had more info from their translations, and/or the Spirit inspired them to write those titles in the text. I believe it is both. By the way, it could be true there may have been tampering by Jewish scribes because of the spread of Christianity, but by ascribing the title of "Mighty God" to a child who was born, they certainly missed to take that out. In fact, they possibly added it!

My summation is this. Christians should have both copies. Pull, compare, and contrast from both translations!!! Another interesting comparison between the two is how Cain reacted to God's punishment for his crime of killing his brother. in Genesis 4 13-14...


Septuagint:

And Cain said to the Lord God, "My crime is too great for me to be forgiven. If You cast me out this day from the face of the earth, and I shall be hidden from Your presence, and I shall be groaning and trembling upon the earth, then it will be that any one that finds me shall slay me.


vs

Masoretic

But Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, this day You have driven me from the face of the earth, and from Your face I will be hidden; I will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”


In both versions, Cain lies to God when asked the whereabouts of Abel. Yet in the Septuagint, he seems slightly more repentant about what he did.

[phativaion]

.
The truth is - that there are not even enough of these Septuagint fragments and flakes that have been found to provide even 1 % of manuscripts texts that make up a complete BC Greek Septuagint.

it is a fact that not a single one piece of evidence shows that even a single completed page of the Greek Septuagint had been completed nor been distributed anywhere, before Christ.

Today's Septuagint is a re - construction of what is thought or believed the Septuagint should have been based upon Greek Old Testament manuscripts found to have been made and written hundreds of years after Christ - - and these were a work in progress,

they were a project to translate the O.t. into Greek - not to take Pre - Christ manuscripts and directly translate these completed O.T. Greek texts or even to make copies of anything completed in Greek before Christ

about .1 - 2 % - of the Dead Sea Scroll fragments found in Greek - show support todays version of the Greek Septuagint - meaning there are contradictions, variants and problems where these manuscripts do not support the Greek Septuagint
Total of - Greek Septuagint verse found in the Dead Sea Scrolls

4Q119 - Greek Septuagint. Leviticus. Chapter 26: 2 – 3 - 6 – 9 – 14


4Q120 - Greek Septuagint. Leviticus 1: 11 _ 2: 3 - 4 - 7 _ 3: 4 - 7 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 13 - 14 _ 4: 3 - 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 - 11 - 18 - 19 - 26 - 27 - 28 - 30 _ 5: 6 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 16 - 17 - 18 - 19 _ 6: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5

4Q121 - Greek Septuagint. Numbers 3: 40 - 41 - 42 - 43 - 50 _ 4: 1 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 – 16

4Q122 - Greek Septuagint. Deuteronomy 11: - 4

7Q1 - Greek Septuagint. Exodus 28: 4 - 5 - 6 - 6 – 7



8HevXIIgr - Septuagint
Jonah 1: - 14 - 15 - 16 - 17
Jonah 2: -1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 6
Jonah 3: - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10
Jonah 4: - 1 - 2 - 5
Micah 1: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8
Micah 2: - 7 - 8
Micah 3: - 5 - 6
Micah 4: - 3 - 4 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10
Micah 5: - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
Nahum 1: - 13
Nahum 2 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 12 - 13
Nahum 3: - 3 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15
Habakkuk 1: - 6 - 7 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 15 - 16 – 17
Habakkuk 2: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - 17 - 18 - 19 - 20
Habakkuk 3: - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15
Zephaniah 1: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - 17 - 18
Zephaniah 2: - 9 - 10
Zephaniah 3: - 7
Zechariah 1: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 12 - 13 – 21
Zechariah 2: - 3 - 4 - 5 - 7 - 8 - 12
Zechariah 3: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
Zechariah 8: - 19 - 20 - 21 - 23
Zechariah 9: - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5



of all the Dead Sea Scrolls showing any support for a Greek Septuagint, there are not even 1 % - of flakes, fragments and shards found in Greek - to show support today’s version of the Greek Septuagint - meaning there are contradictions, variants and problems where these manuscripts do not support the Greek Septuagint


just because people were making Greek translations of the Old Testament does not provide support for a completed Greek Septuagint
- especially

when less that 1 % of all Greek manuscripts that exist to have been found existing before Christ show what existed as Old Testament Greek translation.


It is simply a myth propagated by hearsay and claims - not by factual, physical evidence or manuscripts.

the flakes and shreds of crumbled fragments that have been discovered before Christ to represent the Greek Septuagint are not even 1 %

there simply is no evidence of even a single completed book of the Greek Septuagint having existed before Christ


35 % - of the Hebrew contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls match exactly identical with the Masoretic text

less than 1 % - of the Dead Sea Scroll fragments found in Greek - show support todays version of the Greek Septuagint


the remaining other 55 % of all the other Dead Sea Scroll materials - - are not manuscripts regarding any protestant bible version that excludes the Apocrypha - or represent non biblical books or other non - Bible related manuscripts


In the dead sea scrolls there were found 203 verses in the Greek language - for the Old Testament Greek Septuagint. However, there are an approximate 23,145 total verses that are contained in the entire Hebrew Old Testament - this is accounting for when the Apocrypha is not included in this percentage
​

of all shards, fragments, flakes and pieces of manuscripts that have been found existing before Christ, there are not even 1 % of these to account for the B. C. Greek Septuagint.

This simply is not evidence to place a claim in hearsay and rumor - when someone claims the Apostles and Jesus quoted from the Greek Septuagint - these quotes are quoted from a reconstruction

the BC Greek Old Testament fragments, shreds and pieces that have been found are not even enough to show for even 1 % of the first four books of the Old Testament.


the truth that Christians can see is that - what is called as " The COMPLETED " Septuagint was reconstructed sometime after the 16 th century

A part of the Greek old testament was reconstructed called the "Constantinople Pentateuch " reconstructed - in Constantinople in 1547 - this was Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.


Before this there was no completed Greek Translation of the O .T. - defined as the Septuagint

I believe that something may have existed in Greek regarding the Old Testament, partial chapters, partial books, partial verses - but the evidence simply does not exist and much exaggeration is compiled over the fact. thereafter, that simply is not truthful evidence.