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God may know what is going to happen , BUT He requires that people to come in faith believing and expecting , and working for believers in unity and with a plan for their lives to bless them , ..... Or bad things can happen and God could not help as faith was not there and mistake with people lives can happen and people could be hurt ......
God may know what is going to happen , BUT He requires that people to come in faith believing and expecting , and working for believers in unity and with a plan for their lives to bless them , ..... Or bad things can happen and God could not help as faith was not there and mistake with people lives can happen and people could be hurt ......
So bad things are predestined for the unfaithful,
good things are predestined for the faithful?
Is that what your saying?
Nope, the fire is symbolic of the destruction of the ungodly, not the planet.
KJV Ecclesiastes 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
I did not mean that the earth its self will be destroyed, for the earth is without end. I meant those of this earth's age are reserved to be destroyed by fire, as the old world was destroyed by the flood.
Eph 3:21-4:1
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
KJV
2 Peter 2:5
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
KJV
2 Peter 3:7
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
KJV
Rev 11:18
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
KJV
This word DEAD, means spiritually dead, not those in the resurrection of the GWTJ after the 1,000 yr REST.
What is omniscience then? Is foreknowledge and foreordination the same thing?
Being Omniscient ("all knowing") does not mean one MUST look into the future, just that one can do so accurately. Being Omnipotent means he can't be limited to knowing everything all at one time or he no longer has any choices and is a slave of his own foreknowledge with no choice either. Even Omnipotence is limited to a degree as God Himself says he can't lie. A limitation.
Remember we are talking about man's terms not God's. He showed with the angels and one King that he allows free expression and can chose one or another, thus a choice, not a mandated eventuality prior to the choice, or why give one?? Giving a choice where none exists is stupid, and God isn't stupid.
Then there's no freewill,
then people where created as sinners or saints,
then people where created to chose Christianity or not to,
then the Torah serves no purpose,
then Jesus would serve no purpose.
then People where created to burn in hell, they've no choice they can't chose heaven.
then Nothing would have meaning, we should all just jump off a cliff.
But thankfully that isn't true,
We have Freewill,
A person has the potential to be good or bad.
A person chooses what to believe or not believe.
The Torah has some wisdom but isn't perfect.
Jesus came to show us the way to life.
People can chose to move onto paradise or to reincarnate until they cease to exists.
All of our lives have a meaning, that meaning is what you chose to make of it, our lives are important and should not be treated like puppets on a string.
"How is it that God knows all that is going to happen?" In order for freewill to exists god can't know the exact progression of all events, perhaps the exact progression of major events out of human control but not the events within our control, god knows what we might chose and what those choices would lead up to but god can't know the choices we would make because if God did we would merely be mindless slaves even the ones we claim hate god, would have been created to do so and therefor eternal damnation and the idea of sin would be rendered illogical.
May love and peace be with you all.
I believe we have free will to choose such things as what color, or food or clothes and all personal choices, and we even have free will to choose to worship God or self or money. And God uses us accordingly.
If we have a heart to do evil, then we shall be used for vengeful judgments. If we have a heart to do good which honors God rather we realize it or not, then God will choose us as He did Abraham, Moses, Joseph etc...Remember we are HIS creation and He is the POTTER.
Rom 9:9-23
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
KJV
I believe we have free will to choose such things as what color, or food or clothes and all personal choices, and we even have free will to choose to worship God or self or money. And God uses us accordingly.
If we have a heart to do evil, then we shall be used for vengeful judgments. If we have a heart to do good which honors God rather we realize it or not, then God will choose us as He did Abraham, Moses, Joseph etc...Remember we are HIS creation and He is the POTTER.
You posted the KJV version which I find unreadable so I have included the NIV version of those verses so that I could read them.
"For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory." - Romans 9:9-23
This promotes a lack of responsibility for ones actions and spiritual laziness.
At the end it even denies the idea of freewill, saying that he created people just so he could destroy them and show favoritism on others, this is very evil, perhaps one of the most evil things I have ever read. The person who wrote this was deceived by the devil and manipulated, the Epistle of Romans is a false gospel and shouldn't be treated as scripture.
I reject the notion that god is as evil as that depicts, instead I believe god is love, one who created freewill.
I like to think the Creator is not only capable of, but delights in, surprise.
Exactly. Just because He has the ability to see all doesn't mean He uses it all the time. I believe that He manages the overall 'big picture' as it relates to His plan for man, but the mundane, everyday things He doesn't bother with. This is where our total freedom of choice kicks in.
You posted the KJV version which I find unreadable so I have included the NIV version of those verses so that I could read them.
"For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory." - Romans 9:9-23
This promotes a lack of responsibility for ones actions and spiritual laziness.
At the end it even denies the idea of freewill, saying that he created people just so he could destroy them and show favoritism on others, this is very evil, perhaps one of the most evil things I have ever read. The person who wrote this was deceived by the devil and manipulated, the Epistle of Romans is a false gospel and shouldn't be treated as scripture.
I reject the notion that god is as evil as that depicts, instead I believe god is love, one who created freewill.
re: " Just because He has the ability to see all doesn't mean He uses it all the time....This is where our total freedom of choice kicks in."
How would the knowledge of the choices that a person might make during their lifetime affect their free will to make those choices?
If smart they would respond to God's begging of us:
KJV Isaiah 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
For those who prefer modern English.
BBE Isaiah 48:18 If only you had given ear to my orders, then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness as the waves of the sea:
We listen or we don't, our choice.
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