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This is a fair statement. Thank you for your admission that God can be at work through the Catholic Church. Many would not go that far.
The Church has never claimed to be impeccable, just infallible. Infallibility is a protection provided by God to ensure that His Church does not go off the rails.
So why has it gone off it's rails so many times? Why cannot it not get even basic doctrine correct even today?
The only reason Christianity survived and spread to all of Europe was because of the Roman Catholic Church. Otherwise, we would be Jews or Muslims. I have mentioned this a thousand times to the forum members.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
All this would prove is that God can draw straight lines . . . even with a crooked stick!!!
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Originally Posted by CRCarson
This is a fair statement. Thank you for your admission that God can be at work through the Catholic Church. Many would not go that far.
I would never presume to limit who God would work through . . . unlike the extant religions and their corrupt hierarchies.
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The Church has never claimed to be impeccable, just infallible. Infallibility is a protection provided by God to ensure that His Church does not go off the rails with regard to formal teaching in matters of faith and morals.
This is the height of hubris . . . to claim that ANY human being is capable of infallibility at ANY TIME for ANY reason based on ANY provenance. It is absolutely preposterous!
This is the height of hubris . . . to claim that ANY human being is capable of infallibility at ANY TIME for ANY reason based on ANY provenance. It is absolutely preposterous!
No, this is the depth of ignorance, for you do not understand that infallibility is the work of the Holy Spirit protecting the Church built by Jesus from falling into doctrinal error.
Really...you need to more reading and less posting because this post suggests that you have no clue what infallibility is.
I have to ask...do you really have a PhD? What field?
I would never presume to limit who God would work through . . . unlike the extant religions and their corrupt hierarchies.This is the height of hubris . . . to claim that ANY human being is capable of infallibility at ANY TIME for ANY reason based on ANY provenance. It is absolutely preposterous!
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Originally Posted by CRCarson
No, this is the depth of ignorance, for you do not understand that infallibility is the work of the Holy Spirit protecting the Church built by Jesus from falling into doctrinal error.
That is magical thinking and totally inappropriate for an evolved intellect. If you can look at the world as it actually is and perceive ANY such "Godly protection" from our human frailties . . . please cite them. I am aware of NONE . . . except for Jesus Himself. There isn't another human being of His caliber on the earth, period.
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Really...you need to more reading and less posting because this post suggests that you have no clue what infallibility is.
I have to ask...do you really have a PhD? What field?
I have over 20,000 posts many of which would reveal the presumptuousness of your ignorant (meaning lack of knowledge about ME) assertions. That would be the point of Trout's description of your Catholic six-guns-a-blazing sortie into these fora. I know full well what the RCC asserts about infallibility . . . hence my use of ANY regarding when, where, and why it is presumed to be a trait of the Papacy . . . ie., its provenance. It is magical thinking and completely bogus. I would have expected them to have outgrown such nonsense by the 21st century.,
I know full well what the RCC asserts about infallibility . . . hence my use of ANY regarding when, where, and why it is presumed to be a trait of the Papacy . . . ie., its provenance. It is magical thinking and completely bogus. I would have expected them to have outgrown such nonsense by the 21st century.,
If you are as familiar with the subject as you claim, then your previous post on the subject makes no sense. Infallibility is a protection of God, and one He is fully capable of rendering to the leader of His Church.
You wrote:
Quote:
This is the height of hubris . . . to claim that ANY human being is capable of infallibility at ANY TIME for ANY reason based on ANY provenance.
Let me say this plainly: God is fully capable of ensuring that the leader of the Church that Jesus promised to build never teaches error in matters of faith and morals when exercising his formal capacity as head of the universal Church.
Or do you think this is impossible for God? God can't prevent someone from teaching error?
That is magical thinking and totally inappropriate for an evolved intellect. If you can look at the world as it actually is and perceive ANY such "Godly protection" from our human frailties . . . please cite them. I am aware of NONE . . . except for Jesus Himself. There isn't another human being of His caliber on the earth, period. I have over 20,000 posts many of which would reveal the presumptuousness of your ignorant (meaning lack of knowledge about ME) assertions. That would be the point of Trout's description of your Catholic six-guns-a-blazing sortie into these fora. I know full well what the RCC asserts about infallibility . . . hence my use of ANY regarding when, where, and why it is presumed to be a trait of the Papacy . . . ie., its provenance. It is magical thinking and completely bogus. I would have expected them to have outgrown such nonsense by the 21st century.,
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRCarson
If you are as familiar with the subject as you claim, then your previous post on the subject makes no sense. Infallibility is a protection of God, and one He is fully capable of rendering to the leader of His Church.
Let me say this plainly: God is fully capable of ensuring that the leader of the Church that Jesus promised to build never teaches error in matters of faith and morals when exercising his formal capacity as head of the universal Church.
Or do you think this is impossible for God? God can't prevent someone from teaching error?
It has nothing to do with what is possible for God. It has to do with what has demonstrably been done by God . . . and that is nothing as regards the teachings of the RCC and their infallible Popes. There isn't a shred of evidence that what has been declared infallible . . . is in fact infallible. There are too many disconnects between the God of love revealed by Christ and the God proffered by the RCC in their infallible dogma. Even one instance refutes infallibility and there are more than one. The ET (Hell) doctrine is just one. The inferiority of women and their inability to be ordained is another. The idea that God required such a horrendous scourging and crucifixion to appease His anger, or vengeance, or Holiness, or so-called justice . . . or whatever is another.
It has nothing to do with what is possible for God. It has to do with what has demonstrably been done by God . . . and that is nothing as regards the teachings of the RCC and their infallible Popes. There isn't a shred of evidence that what has been declared infallible . . . is in fact infallible. There are too many disconnects between the God of love revealed by Christ and the God proffered by the RCC in their infallible dogma. Even one instance refutes infallibility and there are more than one. The ET (Hell) doctrine is just one. The inferiority of women and their inability to be ordained is another. The idea that God required such a horrendous scourging and crucifixion to appease His anger, or vengeance, or Holiness, or so-called justice . . . or whatever is another.
MysticPhD-
After examining my conscience during prayer this morning, I know that I sinned against you in the course of our many exchanges yesterday.
I am truly sorry for having offended you, and I ask for your forgiveness.
Going forward, I will endeavor to limit my comments to the subject matter of the thread itself and to present my views in a charitable manner. As scripture says:
Hebrews 12:14-15
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
Finally, I have several people to whom I must repent, so please do not think that my sincerity is diminished in any way by the fact that I use this message more than once in many threads as I come across those to whom it must be addressed.
God bless.
Randy
Last edited by CRCarson; 04-21-2014 at 07:44 AM..
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