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This is the main difference between our understandings. If we will always sin while on this earth, then the power Christ's offer us is only a little better than the Law, but still not able to purge our conscience from sin. If our expectation is we will always sin while on this earth, meaning we always have to be sorrowful about something, then Christ's power isn't enough. This is not what Scripture implies at all. Jesus never sinned, even though he was tempted to. So likewise in Him, we should be able to do the same. That is why confession of sin as a believer, is a wrong teaching. It's premise is even wrong, because repentance (as most Christians see confession of sins) means to change your mind.
No it is not a wrong teaching. It is what the Bible plainly teaches. Confession of sin has nothing to do with being sorrowful for sin.Neither does it have anything to do with repentance. The principle is simply name the sin and then forget it. It is a recognition of God's grace.
No it is not a wrong teaching. It is what the Bible plainly teaches. Confession of sin has nothing to do with being sorrowful for sin.Neither does it have anything to do with repentance. The principle is simply name the sin and then forget it. It is a recognition of God's grace.
I've read it, but from their own words, confessing sins seems redundant. God has forgiven you of that sin, but name it anyway. That when we name it, God tells us we are already forgiven. It's like God is reminding us who we are. Yet what if you know who you are in Christ, what if you know you're forgiven, then why confess the sin itself as though you're admitting your guilty? Why not confess that sin was judged, instead of confessing I've sinned?
Now you said yourself it is recognition of God's grace (naming your sin). So why not name God's grace for your sin, and not just sin itself? You accuse my understanding doesn't recognize sin, when I've said I know what sin is and agree with God what is sin.
You mentioned God disciplining us. Look at the Gospels, and how Jesus interacted with the disciples. What was the major rebuke that He kept getting them on? Was it not doubting, having little faith, having unbelief? Where did He get on them for sinning? Where did He say for them to confess their sins? If you can show me that (and of course I'll look at it as well), then I would agree with you.
I've read it, but from their own words, confessing sins seems redundant. God has forgiven you of that sin, but name it anyway. That when we name it, God tells us we are already forgiven. It's like God is reminding us who we are. Yet what if you know who you are in Christ, what if you know you're forgiven, then why confess the sin itself as though you're admitting your guilty? Why not confess that sin was judged, instead of confessing I've sinned?
You're referring to this statement.
'When did God forgive the sin that you just did? 2000 years ago, on the Cross, Jesus Christ paid for all of your sins. The ones you already did and the ones you will do! So, does God need us to beg Him to do something He already did? NO!! It is just a legal process that we must follow per God's orders in I John 1:9.'
He could have worded that a bit better and gone into more detail. Sin was judged at the cross, but not forgiven. The fact that sin was judged at the cross is the basis for forgiveness of sin for those who believe on Christ.
Sin was judged at the cross; Romans 8:3
But the unbeliever's sins are forgiven when he believes on Christ; Acts 10:43, 26:18
The believer's sins are forgiven when he simply names his post salvation sins; 1 John 1:9
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Now you said yourself it is recognition of God's grace (naming your sin). So why not name God's grace for your sin, and not just sin itself? You accuse my understanding doesn't recognize sin, when I've said I know what sin is and agree with God what is sin.
Because 1 John 1:9 specifically states that the believer is to name his sin when he commits it. Until he does, the sin remains unforgiven and the believer remains out of fellowship. It is not a difficult thing to understand.
The believer is to name his sin every time he recognizes that he did sin.
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You mentioned God disciplining us. Look at the Gospels, and how Jesus interacted with the disciples. What was the major rebuke that He kept getting them on? Was it not doubting, having little faith, having unbelief? Where did He get on them for sinning? Where did He say for them to confess their sins? If you can show me that (and of course I'll look at it as well), then I would agree with you.
Are you then one who disreqards what is in the epistles? Do you disregard anything that Jesus Himself didn't personally say during His First Advent? Do what the apostles wrote carry no weight with you?
I have now pointed out THREE times that Jesus Himself did teach the principle of naming your sins inJohn 13:5-12. You can go back and read my other posts concerning that.
It sounds to me as though you just don't want to take responsibility for your sins and can't be bothered with acknowledging your sins to God when you do sin.
At any rate, the issue has been amply explained to you; and 1 John 1:9 which applies to all believers could not be more clear. And so we are done here.
'When did God forgive the sin that you just did? 2000 years ago, on the Cross, Jesus Christ paid for all of your sins. The ones you already did and the ones you will do! So, does God need us to beg Him to do something He already did? NO!! It is just a legal process that we must follow per God's orders in I John 1:9.'
He could have worded that a bit better and gone into more detail. Sin was judged at the cross, but not forgiven. The fact that sin was judged at the cross is the basis for forgiveness of sin for those who believe on Christ.
Sin was judged at the cross; Romans 8:3
But the unbeliever's sins are forgiven when he believes on Christ; Acts 10:43, 26:18
The believer's sins are forgiven when he simply names his post salvation sins; 1 John 1:9
Because 1 John 1:9 specifically states that the believer is to name his sin when he commits it. Until he does, the sin remains unforgiven and the believer remains out of fellowship. It is not a difficult thing to understand.
The believer is to name his sin every time he recognizes that he did sin.
Are you then one who disreqards what is in the epistles? Do you disregard anything that Jesus Himself didn't personally say during His First Advent? Do what the apostles wrote carry no weight with you?
I have now pointed out THREE times that Jesus Himself did teach the principle of naming your sins inJohn 13:5-12. You can go back and read my other posts concerning that.
It sounds to me as though you just don't want to take responsibility for your sins and can't be bothered with acknowledging your sins to God when you do sin.
At any rate, the issue has been amply explained to you; and 1 John 1:9 which applies to all believers could not be more clear. And so we are done here.
Washing the feet, why do you translate that as confessing sins? Can you give me a specific example of Jesus telling the disciples to confess their sins? Paul corrected Peter once, when he withdrew from hanging out with gentile believers, because of the jewish believers. Paul corrected Peter because of this hypocrisy. Yet even then, Paul didn't tell Peter to confess his sin, he just confronted him about it. To me, this is an example of washing each other's feet. Yet even then, Jesus could also simply mean to help one another, and bear one another's burden, even actually washing each other's feet. So why make that jump to it meaning confessing of sins.
If this is an important teaching, which I assume you would say is pretty much the key to living the Christian life, there should be some glowing examples of Jesus telling this to the disciples. You keep referring to how God disciplines us, as in He chastening us because of sin committed and that we aren't confessing them. Yet when I look at how Jesus chasten the disciples (Who is God and would reflect how our Father would discipline us), He got on them about their unbelief. That was pretty much it. No where do I see confessing sin was their problem. Come on, I just asked for one example of Jesus telling the disciples to confess their sins. Let's be real with this, and go beyond what our pastors taught us. Because this is when we are making our faith our's.
Give it a rest, it has become an issue of pearls before swine. Not that I'm calling anyone swine, the principal is that you are arguing for naught. Heavenese has an aversion to confession even though he is constantly gingerly tip-toeing around it in his own argument. Just let the dead horse rest in peace.
I've made it clear the difference between our understandings. The end all be all. Both of you are basically saying there won't be a day where we can live a blameless life, and reach full maturity even in these bodies. That we can't live and walk like Jesus walked. That is ultimately what you're saying, and you can't deny it.
All I'm bringing up, is that we can do it. We just have to renew our mind, and bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. It's your thoughts, that produce your actions. I believe we can walk like Christ, right here on this earth.
...No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another... (Al - Qur'an 6:164)
Jesus PBUH replies in V.No.17 of Gospel of Mathew, Ch.No.19 – ‘And Jesus said upto him, ‘Why thou callest me good? For there is none good, except One, that is God - And if you want to enter life, keep the commandments’.
Jesus PBUH never said that if you want to go to heaven, you consider me as God or begotten son of GOD. He never said that you believe that I will die for your sins – In fact he said, ‘You keep the commandments’.
Can true salvation from God, be the punishment of someone else who is innocent from any of these crimes, to be punished as though he were guilty?
Does God need someone to suffer severe punishment, even though they are trying, day after day.
Did Jesus (peace be upon him) tell the people to take him as a god, or to worship him?
...No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another... (Al - Qur'an 6:164)
Jesus PBUH replies in V.No.17 of Gospel of Mathew, Ch.No.19 – ‘And Jesus said upto him, ‘Why thou callest me good? For there is none good, except One, that is God - And if you want to enter life, keep the commandments’.
Jesus PBUH never said that if you want to go to heaven, you consider me as God or begotten son of GOD. He never said that you believe that I will die for your sins – In fact he said, ‘You keep the commandments’.
Can true salvation from God, be the punishment of someone else who is innocent from any of these crimes, to be punished as though he were guilty?
Does God need someone to suffer severe punishment, even though they are trying, day after day.
Did Jesus (peace be upon him) tell the people to take him as a god, or to worship him?
I think you are wasting your time trying to spread the Muslim faith on a Christian forum.
Give it a rest, it has become an issue of pearls before swine. Not that I'm calling anyone swine, the principal is that you are arguing for naught. Heavenese has an aversion to confession even though he is constantly gingerly tip-toeing around it in his own argument. Just let the dead horse rest in peace.
Blessing in Christ,
Matthew
I already mentioned at the bottom of post #103 that I was done with this. The issue has been explained well enough.
While it is true that God provides a way of escape from temptation, the simple fact of the matter is that no believer will resist temptation all the time no matter how spiritually mature he becomes. The old sin nature is not the source of sin, but is one source of temptation. The sources of temptation are the world (Satan's cosmic system), the flesh (the Old sin nature), and the devil (Satan does not personally tempt most people). Sin occurs when volition gives in to temptation.
The more spiritually mature a believer comes, the less he will sin, and the sins he commits may change, but he will always get around to sinning at some point. He will always give in to some temptation once in a while.
I want to quote this again because I want you to see why your teaching is wrong. When you say we will always give in to some temptation once in a while, you are right here admitting you are trying to live the Christian life in your own strength. That is where your focus is. You talk about how not confessing your sins prevents your growth, and that you enter a state of perpetual carnality, yet from your view you are saying we will never develop into an area where we are walking like Jesus walk.
Do you consider your body, the world, and Satan stronger than the Holy Spirit? Are you saying there is something impossible for God? That is what you're saying when you state we will always give in to temptation once in a while, while on this earth. So if that is the end of your teaching of confession of sins, that right there tell you it isn't a Christian doctrine. You confess your sins at salvation, and then put on Christ Jesus. From that point, "if" we sin, we remember that sin was judged on Christ as well. We already agree with God about sin. The key to our actions is the renewing of our mind, not your statement of what is sin. Yet I won't force this teaching down your throats, but I hope you will read my words and think about it.
Most Christians still confess their sins, and yes they do feel condemned because of it. They do feel sorrow. I haven't met anyone who confessed their sins, and didn't feel a great amount of sorrow because they sinned. You don't think the enemy will hold those sins over your head, or try to tempt you to commit some of the same ones? No matter how much you try to seperate confession of sins from feeling sorrow, you can't do it. Again, give me one situation where Jesus taught confession of sins to His disciples? Just give me one. If you can't, then don't say I don't understand something. I've gone through all those verses of 1 John 1 with as little assumptions as possible, and they don't adequately show confession of sins is a Christian routine. Chapter 2 explains ch. 1, and why John wrote it in such a way. It's always amazing how those those who teach confession of sins mention 1 John 1: 9, yet they never speak of chapter 2.
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