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I'm having a hard time right now. Idk if this thread is already somewhere else, if so just tell me.
Anywho, I'm just going to go off the top of my head. I have a few questions
1. If you are a born again Christian, are you now considered sinless? If not, do you become sinless when you enter heaven? And if so, how was Satan and is entourage able to rebel in heaven if they were sinless beings.
2. Was Adam and Eve sinless before they ate the forbidden fruit? This one puzzles me because, if they were sinless and perfect at first, since they disobeyed God, wasn't they actually sinful from the beginning. You have to already be a sinner to disobey.
3. How in the world am I supposed to please God if I am forever a wicked person on this Earth? This correlates to question 1. We can't possibly do EVERYTHING perfectly. So aren't we all SOL.
Example: I am born again, now I am sinless. However, I commit a sin, now obviously I am not a born again christian. HOWEVER, if I am born again Christian and I still have sin, what's the point in trying to be righteous. This is starting to seem like a lose, lose game. Now you might say he forgives, but how do I know he has forgiven me when I am still a sinner and he says only the righteous will enter his kingdom. None of us are righteous. So will none of us enter.
I hope this makes sense. Ask me to clarify if needed.
I'm having a hard time right now. Idk if this thread is already somewhere else, if so just tell me.
Anywho, I'm just going to go off the top of my head. I have a few questions
1. If you are a born again Christian, are you now considered sinless? If not, do you become sinless when you enter heaven? And if so, how was Satan and is entourage able to rebel in heaven if they were sinless beings.
The believer still has an Old sin nature and will continue to sin. But when you sin as a believer simply name the sin to God the Father as per 1 John 1:9 which says, 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'
Further down this post you ask how you can know that God forgives you as a sinner. You can know because the word of God says that He forgives you when you name your sins to Him.
The sin nature resides in the body. When the believer dies he leaves the sin nature behind.
The sin nature is one of three sources of temptation, but it is not the source of sin itself. Sin comes from the volition in response to temptation, whether that temptation comes from the sin nature, or from the world, or from Satan.
Since Satan had volition he was able to rebel against God. Because Adam had volition he was able to disobey God.
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2. Was Adam and Eve sinless before they ate the forbidden fruit? This one puzzles me because, if they were sinless and perfect at first, since they disobeyed God, wasn't they actually sinful from the beginning. You have to already be a sinner to disobey.
Adam and the woman were indeed sinless until they disobeyed God's command to not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God gave Adam volition, and the means of using that volition by providing that tree and then giving Adam the command to not eat of it. For Adam's volition to function there had to be something with which it could work. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the command to not eat of it was that means.
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3. How in the world am I supposed to please God if I am forever a wicked person on this Earth? This correlates to question 1. We can't possibly do EVERYTHING perfectly. So aren't we all SOL.
Simply name your sins to God as you commit them so that you are back in fellowship under the control of God the Holy Spirit, and grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and study to show yourself approved unto God.
2 Peter 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
God leaves the believer on earth after salvation in order for him to grow up spiritually. This life is preparation for eternity. The believer who advances spiritually will have greater rewards and responsibilities in the eternal future than the believer who fails to grow up spiritually. As a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ you advance spiritually by learning and applying Bible doctrine to the circumstances of your life.
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Example: I am born again, now I am sinless. However, I commit a sin, now obviously I am not a born again christian. HOWEVER, if I am born again Christian and I still have sin, what's the point in trying to be righteous. This is starting to seem like a lose, lose game. Now you might say he forgives, but how do I know he has forgiven me when I am still a sinner and he says only the righteous will enter his kingdom. None of us are righteous. So will none of us enter.
I hope this makes sense. Ask me to clarify if needed.
Every believer will continue to sin during his life. Every believer at any given moment in his life is either carnal as a result of commiting a sin which means that he is under the control of his old sin nature, or he is spiritual as a result of simply naming his sin to God which puts him back under the control of the Holy Spirit.
Spirituality and degree of spiritual growth are two different things. Carnality and spirituality are absolutes. The believer at any given moment is either one or the other regardless of his level of spiritual growth.
Any sin you will ever commit in your life as a believer was judged at the cross. So when you simply name the sin to God He forgives you of that sin. You cannot lose your salvation by sinning (or for any other reason). Sin simply causes the believer to get out of fellowship or lose his rapport until he names the sin. Unconfessed sin results in discipline (Hebrews 12:6), but not loss of salvation.
You have to understand that when you believe on Jesus Christ for eternal life, God imputes His own perfect righteousness to you. Therefore, because you possess the perfect righteousness of God (Romans 5:1; Gal. 3:6) you are acceptable to God and will spend eternity in the presence of God.
Remember that the believer will spend the eternal future with God not because of his own righteousness, but because he has been imputed with God's very own perfect righteousness.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-16-2013 at 01:45 AM..
^^^ Very insightful, and so it seems, non biased response. So is it expected of me to live my life as perfect as possible? It seems nearly impossible to do something that isn't a sin. If I have to keep asking for forgiveness, how am I ever to be righteous in His eyes? Or is He understanding and knows that we will keep sinning and wants to see if we will confess every time.
When born again Christians are first born again have repented and sin is gone through the eyes of Lord Jesus , It never happened ........., then as the devil comes and put sin in the face of these believers , Jesus has a plan to hear the prayer and prove the faith of the born again believer and cleans the sin out , again and again , until the believer endures to the end of His life where the believer will be protected by Jesus Spirit for His journey to Heaven ............ People who are not born again do not see the Kingdom of Heaven , are still lost to God as He wait for them to turn and be saved by being born again in the spirit ....... the devil put sin in their face of the lost and they will have to resist on their own natural power , or have Christians pray for them be be free of sin , then as they pass from this world without God Spirit to protect them they will be collected by Gods Angels who will put them in the place God prepared with no protection for their souls , were their spirit will continue to live .............Adam and Eve were perfect sinless until the rejected God by rejecting His Words which He commanded them to obey which open the door to the devil who brought his sin, ....So Adam and Eve were there with No Saviour, as They were called to be the Saviour............ See born again through the spirit please God by their faith in their confidence to the Lord , as through the eyes of God His Children are sinless and He will be right By the side of people who are born again helping them be sinless in His eyes ...........How do people be born again ?.........They need to pray and talk to God and never stop talking to God ever again , they need to repent of sin, study Gods Words , and ask Jesus to help them be born again ...they need to find a church that preaches the gospel, and has the evidence of Holy Spirit in the leaders and the people who go there....
^^^ Very insightful, and so it seems, non biased response. So is it expected of me to live my life as perfect as possible? It seems nearly impossible to do something that isn't a sin. If I have to keep asking for forgiveness, how am I ever to be righteous in His eyes? Or is He understanding and knows that we will keep sinning and wants to see if we will confess every time.
Just my thoughts:
Friend, What is "sin"? Is it anything other than "non-love"?? Think about it. Replace the word "sin" in your mind with "non-love". Jesus gave us two commands and they both put the spotlight on LOVE. When we "sin" we are not being loving. We are turning away from Love.. (remember.. GOD is love.)
We all are walking this life with one foot on the wide path and one foot on the narrow path. Don't be fooled by those who pound it into people's heads that "Get saved (i.e. say this prayer) and you are now on the narrow path!" NO. That is false. Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL mankind. It is finished.
We are ALL walking both the narrow path and wide path at the same time. What does God want from us? To LOVE (remember Jesus' commands) and to repent when we are non-loving (sin). Why? So that we LEARN.
This life is not about "say the right thing, believe the right thing and go to heaven, so you don't end up in hell". Look around you at this beautiful world that God created, look at all of the wonders and ask yourself "What is this life really about?" Ponder. Pray.
The wide path, which leads to destruction is NON-LOVE.
The narrow path which leads to life is LOVE.
The non-love (when we turn away from God, turn away from love, our actions and thoughts are unloving) is on the path to destruction. Non-love within us is being destroyed.
Don't focus on "sin".
Focus on LOVE.
We ALL have non-loving thoughts, we ALL act in non-loving ways. It is going to happen. Don't give those things any power by putting the light on them and giving them energy. Take the light off them and they will shrivel and die, don't allow them to grow. Instead put the light on the LOVE within, and allow LOVE to grow. Nourish the LOVE you have within. Focus on that and HAVE NO FEAR.
Perfect LOVE casts out ALL fear. God is perfect, agape love. God loves you no matter what.
When Jesus was being crucified... what did He say about those who crucified Him?
"Forgive them Father.."
Read 1 Corinthians 13 while keeping the following in mind:
--1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God IS love.
--1 John 4:16 God IS love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
And remember the two commands that Jesus gave: LOVE.
Peace,
sparrow
Last edited by .sparrow.; 02-16-2013 at 09:35 AM..
Friend, What is "sin"? Is it anything other than "non-love"?? Think about it. Replace the word "sin" in your mind with "non-love". Jesus gave us two commands and they both put the spotlight on LOVE. When we "sin" we are not being loving. We are turning away from Love.. (remember.. GOD is love.)
We all are walking this life with one foot on the wide path and one foot on the narrow path. Don't be fooled by those who pound it into people's heads that "Get saved (i.e. say this prayer) and you are now on the narrow path!" NO. That is false. Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL mankind. It is finished.
We are ALL walking both the narrow path and wide path at the same time. What does God want from us? To LOVE (remember Jesus' commands) and to repent when we are non-loving (sin). Why? So that we LEARN.
This life is not about "say the right thing, believe the right thing and go to heaven, so you don't end up in hell". Look around you at this beautiful world that God created, look at all of the wonders and ask yourself "What is this life really about?" Ponder. Pray.
The wide path, which leads to destruction is NON-LOVE.
The narrow path which leads to life is LOVE.
The non-love (when we turn away from God, turn away from love, our actions and thoughts are unloving) is on the path to destruction. Non-love within us is being destroyed.
Don't focus on "sin".
Focus on LOVE.
We ALL have non-loving thoughts, we ALL act in non-loving ways. It is going to happen. Don't give those things any power by putting the light on them and giving them energy. Take the light off them and they will shrivel and die, don't allow them to grow. Instead put the light on the LOVE within, and allow LOVE to grow. Nourish the LOVE you have within. Focus on that and HAVE NO FEAR.
Perfect LOVE casts out ALL fear. God is perfect, agape love. God loves you no matter what.
When Jesus was being crucified... what did He say about those who crucified Him?
"Forgive them Father.."
Read 1 Corinthians 13 while keeping the following in mind:
--1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God IS love.
--1 John 4:16 God IS love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
And remember the two commands that Jesus gave: LOVE.
Peace,
sparrow
I could not have said it better than that, Sparrow. You clearly know what you are talking about. There will always be hindrances to keeping on the narrow path, but that is just the way it is in this present world.
^^^ Very insightful, and so it seems, non biased response. So is it expected of me to live my life as perfect as possible? It seems nearly impossible to do something that isn't a sin. If I have to keep asking for forgiveness, how am I ever to be righteous in His eyes? Or is He understanding and knows that we will keep sinning and wants to see if we will confess every time.
As I said, if you have accepted Jesus as Savior, God has imputed HIS own righteousness to you. The believer is righteous not on the basis of his own imperfect relative righteousness, but because he has been imputed or credited with the very righteousness of God. In terms of eternal salvation it is His own perfect righteousness which God sees when He looks at the believer, not the believer's own righteousness.
Read Romans 4:1-11.
Rom 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3] For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4] Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6] just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7] "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. 8] "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." 9] Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10] How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11] and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,
Man is made righteous in the eyes of God on the basis of faith in Christ. Not on the basis of works.
And when you sin, you don't have to ask God to forgive you, but rather, simply name the sin to God as per 1 John 1:9. When you name the sin you are agreeing with God that you sinned. And on the basis of the fact that that sin was already judged at the cross, God forgives it. That's grace. Therefore simply name it, forget it, and move on with your spiritual life. You don't have to feel sorry for your sins, you don't have to promise that you won't commit that sin again, just name it. With spiritual growth you will outgrow some sins and may start commiting different sins. But you will continue to sin in this life. Hopefully not as much. 1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin, but is a provision by God whereby you can be restored to fellowship so that you are in a position to grow up spiritually.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And when you name your known sins, God forgives the unknown sins, and sins which you have forgoten about as well.
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
When you sin, you must name it to God, or you will remain in a perpetual state of carnality which means that you will have no spiritual dynamics in your life. A believer who is always out of fellowship and under the control of his sin nature is simply wasting his time on this earth and cannot fulfill God's purpose for his life.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-16-2013 at 02:04 PM..
We ALL have non-loving thoughts, we ALL act in non-loving ways. It is going to happen. Don't give those things any power by putting the light on them and giving them energy. Take the light off them and they will shrivel and die, don't allow them to grow. Instead put the light on the LOVE within, and allow LOVE to grow. Nourish the LOVE you have within. Focus on that and HAVE NO FEAR. Perfect LOVE casts out ALL fear. God is perfect, agape love. God loves you no matter what.
I LOVE how you put that, sparrow ... It can't be said enough for me: don't give sin power; instead keep the focus on the Love within, nourish it (in ourselves AND in others).
^^^ Very insightful, and so it seems, non biased response. So is it expected of me to live my life as perfect as possible? It seems nearly impossible to do something that isn't a sin. If I have to keep asking for forgiveness, how am I ever to be righteous in His eyes? Or is He understanding and knows that we will keep sinning and wants to see if we will confess every time.
you're doin fine tony... we will never be perfect in this life. we are all sinners...the goal is perfection. You want to strive for perfection. Put Christ first in all you do. You've accepted his gift of salvation. Mike laid it out for you.... some of it may be hard to grasp or understand but ask the lord to reveal it to you and he will.
And be careful what you read on this board, its not all what it should be.
I'm having a hard time right now. Idk if this thread is already somewhere else, if so just tell me.
Anywho, I'm just going to go off the top of my head. I have a few questions
1. If you are a born again Christian, are you now considered sinless? If not, do you become sinless when you enter heaven? And if so, how was Satan and is entourage able to rebel in heaven if they were sinless beings.
When you receive Christ into your heart, He takes all of your sins upon Himself. Now Jesus died a sinner's death, yet He was without sin. So how can He die a sinner's death when He never sinned. We know how, He died as us. He took our sins, and died as us. When we receive Him into our hearts and put our trust in His works, we then receive His righteousness. Jesus' perfection is accounted to us, and we are born again with His nature. The new nature which in found on the inside of every believer.
So the only thing that changed when we received Christ, was our spirit. It's there where we are perfect. These bodies weren't changed. They are still off the mark of how God created it to function, which is what sin means. So if we sin today, it's because we were leaning on our bodies feelings and trying to do things in our own effort. It's no surprise when we mess up when walking according to our effort. However, when we live according to our new spirit in Christ, we have the ability to live perfectly before the Lord, because now we are living according to the strength He's given us.
Yes, we can stumble in this life, but realize we stumble/sin because of these bodies. That is why you must renew your mind to the new nature in Christ. You must see yourself in Jesus, and you will sin less and less, even to the point where you don't sin. Yet if you do sin, again remember Jesus, what He did for you and who you are now, in Him. Say, literally, as Jesus is, so am I. Is Jesus righteous before our Father? Yes! So am I in this world. Is Jesus healthy? Yes! So am I in this world. Continue to identify yourself with Christ, and your life will reflect Him.
To the second part of this question, Satan was perfect when he was created. Yet he had free will, and he became proud in himself. With that pride, he then wanted to take God's position, so that everyone would worship him. So, he fell from perfection, and fell from his position in Heaven. All of that stemmed from his choice, not from his perfection or any lack of perfection.
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Originally Posted by tonyurban
2. Was Adam and Eve sinless before they ate the forbidden fruit? This one puzzles me because, if they were sinless and perfect at first, since they disobeyed God, wasn't they actually sinful from the beginning. You have to already be a sinner to disobey.
Nope. In fact if God created Adam a sinner, Adam would be disobeying God if he all of a sudden became sinless. Adam made a choice, and corruption was the result of it.
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Originally Posted by tonyurban
3. How in the world am I supposed to please God if I am forever a wicked person on this Earth? This correlates to question 1. We can't possibly do EVERYTHING perfectly. So aren't we all SOL.
Example: I am born again, now I am sinless. However, I commit a sin, now obviously I am not a born again christian. HOWEVER, if I am born again Christian and I still have sin, what's the point in trying to be righteous. This is starting to seem like a lose, lose game. Now you might say he forgives, but how do I know he has forgiven me when I am still a sinner and he says only the righteous will enter his kingdom. None of us are righteous. So will none of us enter.
Again you only stumble because you keep looking at yourself. You are looking at your ability to live a good life, but the body is weak. It's like trying to lift a ten story building with your bare hands. You're not going to be able to do that. Yet, most Christians try just that. Then once they realize over and over again they can't do it, they apologize to God, only to try the same thing again. There's so much confusion among Christians, and it's because our pastors and leaders aren't teaching correctly.
Firstly, when you are born again, you first acknowledge you are utterly sinful. Then you receive Christ's righteousness into your heart, and thus you are born with His nature inside of you. (You receive a new spirit, born of Jesus' nature) This is what repenting is about. The greek word for repentance means to change your mind. When it comes to sin, you do this once! You change your mind about your effort, because you are utterly sinful. (Your body and whole being is off the mark, because God originally created Adam perfect. Because we descended from Adam, we received his corruption at birth) Then you put on Christ, and receive His righteousness.
So to review, when we were born, we received Adam's corruption. So no matter how much good you did, you were still a sinner. You couldn't help it, it didn't matter if you saved 100 people from a burning house, you were still corrupt. In the same way, in Jesus, no matter how much bad you do in these corrupt bodies, you are still righteous because of Jesus. This is how you must see yourself, identify with your new nature in Christ, and your life will show it. Because now you are lifting that 10 story building in God's strength, not your own. You know you can't lift that building, just like you can't live a perfect life in your own strength. Yet you know if God is with you, in His strength you can do anything.
Finally I want to say, don't be conscious of your sin. If you sin, it's because of your body. Yet that sin is covered by the blood of Christ. Most Christians will say repent if you sin, as in apologize or confess it to God, make amends. Yet repentance doesn't mean that. Again the word for repentance in the NT is "metanoia", which means to change your mind. When it comes to sin, you do it once! After that you put your complete trust in Jesus. When it comes to God's grace, you are repenting all the time because again, repentance means to change your mind. There is always something new to be learned about God's grace. The more you learn and renew your mind, the more you will live righteously. Going from glory to glory. So if you mess up, if you sin, just take that moment to again remember who you are in Christ. Thank God for Jesus, and be strengthened.
Confessing sin to God is not accurate teaching for Christian living. For one, no one can confess all sins that you do every day. Don't you know even hating someone is murder? Don't you know lying is an abomination before God? Do we confess every white lie? Do we confess to every yeilded thought of lust? So if we don't confess every sin, we fall out of relationship with God until we confess them? Again, we probably sin hundreds of times throughout the day, and don't even know it. Yet we are still in relationship with our Father. That doesn't stop Him from talking to us, and lifting us up. The only thing that hinders our relationship with God, is our own self condemnation. We feel like we mess up so bad, that we "must do something" to get right. Namely confessing our sins.
So again, if you read all that, continue to realize who you are in Christ. If you mess up, remember Christ. Thank God for Jesus dying our death, so we can live. Don't mope around, and above all don't condemn yourself. The only reason you stumbled was because you were looking at your effort. Change your mind about who you are, and know that you are righteous in Jesus.
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Adam made a choice, and corruption was the result of it.
You change your mind about your effort, because you are utterly sinful. (Your body and whole being is off the mark, because God originally created Adam perfect. Because we descended from Adam, we received his corruption at birth) Then you put on Christ, and receive His righteousness.
