Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sin is still with us because it is a failure to control our basic urges to prevent harm to others . . . but it can no longer separate us from God . . . only tarnish/taint the quality and kind of relationship we have and require "refinement" to be made truly worthy. Any such "refinement" is likely to be very unpleasant.
I thought you said that Jesus eliminated sin. Which is it? Is sin still around or not?
Hi ttrep, I believe that the baby has the potential to sin and will inevitably sin if it grows. It will one day sin and at that point, it will have sin.
I was thinking about Adam and I believe that there had been no serpent or outside influence to deceive Eve, then possibly neither one of them would have ever sinned. They could have lived without ever sinning but Adam's descendants would not be able to do this due to the operation of death. God bless.
Hi Shanabrown, the reality, according to my studies, is that there is no literal serpent. But rather that the Serpent is a metaphor for the disobedient nature of Adam. In other words, it was Adam that deceived Eve. If you would like to discuss that further we can on another thread as to not derail this one.
They could never have lived without sinning because there was no "what ifs". God planned it the way it turned out for His purposes. The choice was REAL, but the outcome was designed and accomplished.
They could never have lived without sinning because there was no "what ifs". God planned it the way it turned out for His purposes. The choice was REAL, but the outcome was designed and accomplished.
Hi trettp,
I agree that God planned it in this way according to what He purpose and I also believe that that if the serpent (whoever or whatever you believe this to be), had not been introduced (if this had been God's plan), I don't believe that Eve would have been deceived and eaten the fruit. I believe that they in their innocence would have remained sinless. Just my belief. God bless.
What I will add along these lines is something that I believe needs to be considered. I don't think any believer will die sin free, the nature of those sins notwithstanding we will all die in some kind of tarnished state in comparison to God.
Again, we need to quit letting certain words being learned about incorrectly remain rooted in our thinking. God loves us all and we are all on a journey to be one with him, in comparison to what lays ahead, the glory, the wonder, we are in comparison as dirty rags.
Now when most people hear that we are dirty rags they think in terms of how God actually sees us and how we should think of ourselves. But we need to start seeing that it is only a comparison to help us see the fabulous journey that lays ahead of us and be encouraged.
Anyway not to digress too much, there is a scripture that seems to show us that our sins do only tarnish our journey, make it more difficult and prolong the goal of our walk. We have to believe it is a promise to everyone by God without including religious ritualistic thinking.
Hb 13:5 [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Now, some people will say that God is only making that promise to believers. The reason I say that he has made that promise to everyone is because I can look back, before I ever believed, before I ever really acknowledged God in my life I can see he was there with me, even when I couldn't have cared less. He did not forsake me, even when I lived a life that was a road to my destruction.
I understand what you are trying to say but we can't ignore scriptures that say sin separates us from God or that we are spiritually dead when we sin.
I don't believe God leaves anyone or forsakes anyone. They pull away from Him. I heard a good saying once. When you feel like you don't have God, remember it is not Him who moved.
Last edited by MissKate12; 12-30-2011 at 01:06 PM..
Hi Shanabrown, the reality, according to my studies, is that there is no literal serpent. But rather that the Serpent is a metaphor for the disobedient nature of Adam. In other words, it was Adam that deceived Eve. If you would like to discuss that further we can on another thread as to not derail this one.
They could never have lived without sinning because there was no "what ifs". God planned it the way it turned out for His purposes. The choice was REAL, but the outcome was designed and accomplished.
Then you are placing the blame for sin squarely God. Adam sinned because God made Him do it. I just can't buy into that. Yes I agree God knew He would sin. But again, the decision belonged to Adam.
I agree that God planned it in this way according to what He purpose and I also believe that that if the serpent (whoever or whatever you believe this to be), had not been introduced (if this had been God's plan), I don't believe that Eve would have been deceived and eaten the fruit. I believe that they in their innocence would have remained sinless. Just my belief. God bless.
The serpent was put there to test Adam and Eve. That was part of the plan. But did God plan for them to sin? No, He knew they would but they sinned because they chose to not because God planned for them to. Shana, God hates sin. Why would He plan for them to break His law?
Hi Katie yes, I believe that God knew what would happen and by bringing it all into existence, all that happened was a part of the plan.
Sorry but you asked
I believe that when God made man in His image, made Adam, this was not the finished product because there were so many things that Adam did not know and needed to know/learn. I don't believe that Adam was perfect because He succumbed to temptation and made the wrong choice. Jesus never did this.
Everything that Adam had was beautiful and had been given to Him. Everthing was good, but did Adam really know what goodness really was? Where was the contrast? Someone once said, "What is good health to someone who has always known good health?" Did Adam really appreciate God and His goodness and holiness? Did He really know about the depth of God's love for him?
We know this about how much God loves us. We were once sinners and He gave His Son for us. That's how much He loves us. Did Adam know this? Would we have known this about God's love for us, if we had not become sinners? That God loves us so much even as we are his enemies, that He handed over His own pure Son to be murdered for us? What does this tell us about the love of our God? We know Him and honor Him as our Savior and without us having been put into that position to learn about this and to experience this, how would we know this?
I believe that it was about contrast and how God teaches us about what goodness really is, what it really means to be righteous, what it means to have agape love, what forgiveness is, what compassion and hope are, what faithfulness is, what faith is, for example. We needed the contrast to learn and to develop these things. For example, how do we know what forgiveness is without there being someone who needs forgiveness? And these qualities, God is creating within us as He is transforming us into something more that what Adam was. Adam was the beginning and Jesus is the last. We are a part of the body of Jesus Christ, the second Adam. We have to learn to be overcomers and the whole process here on earth is a part of us becoming this.
No, God doesn't want us to sin, but how could we learn to hate sin and to choose righteousness without the experience of sin? God wants us to be righteous but we have to learn what that means by learning to walk by faith, by trusting in Him, putting to death the deeds of the body by His Spirit, by yielding to Him and we would have never known this without the whole experience.
Just sharing and hope that you can understand where I am coming from. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-30-2011 at 02:02 PM..
I understand what you are trying to say but we can't ignore scriptures that say sin separates us from God or that we are spiritually dead when we sin.
I don't believe God leaves anyone or forsakes anyone. They pull away from Him. I heard a good saying once. When you feel like you don't have God, remember it is not Him who moved.
I'm not ignoring them I am placing the wording into the proper context.
Sin cannot eternally separate us from God, if he promises to never leave or forsake us, then that is impossible no matter who you try to blame.
That is not what the Bible says. Scriptures say sin separate us from God. Show me the scripture that says sin only tarnishes or taints our relationship with God. Unless you can show this in the Bible, it is nothing more than your opinion.
Kate
Kate you simply refuse to believe that Christ removed the main consequence of sin for us all. What do you think He accomplished if not that? Death where is your sting.
Kate you simply refuse to believe that Christ removed the main consequence of sin for us all.
What do you think He accomplished if not that? Death where is your sting.
"The sting of death resides only within the blowing sands of fear; piercing the minds of men."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
