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JEWS went back and reinterpreted it to mean prophecy? You're delirious, lol....
Shows how much you actually read my posts. I'm not a literalist, I'm BOTH. BOTH heaven and earth have to come into agreement/covenant. And that way, when one understanding contradicts the other, you KNOW one is wrong, usually the literal.
Just because you have lost your faith, you are doing everything possible to undermine the faith of others and the scriptures themselves, because misery loves company. Return to your first love. Peace
You never question Scripture but brag about your Jewish knowledge of the OT. In fact, you appear completely ignorant of the fact that the entire Jewish tradition is WRESTLING with Scripture. Just as the Jews did in Jesus' time.
Disagreements are preserved not silenced or marginalized in official core texts of Judaism like the Talmud and medieval commentaries on the Bible. Opposing opinions often sit side by side.
Quote:
Arguments/disagreements (machloket): As a method of allowing students to understand differing viewpoints and the legitimacy of argument, the Talmud serves as a primary experience. Every sugyah is full of Amoraim and Tanaim who seem to argue about just everything. They also learn to reach conclusion and put their differences into perspective. Most importantly, students learn that the value of arguing is about the “principle” of the matter.
Talmud allows the mind freedom to develop and trains the student in analytical and intellectual prowess and mind-bending arguments. There is a joy of discovery which comes through the unravelling of the complex dialectics of a sugya. The late Swiss psychologist Jean Piaget wrote “Each time one prematurely teaches a child something he could have discovered for himself, that child is kept from inventing it, and consequently from understanding it completely”. Talmud is the experience of continually discovering knowledge.
You are one of those children who was prematurely taught and have been kept from understanding Scripture completely. Your posts reveal one who is at best been fed milk, and at worst one who has drunk at a poisonous well.
You know neither Scripture, nor its Jewish authors and commentators who welcomed diverse opinions in order to form more perfect ideas.
To you the Bible is a cookbook. Follow the recipes and the result is a given. Reading the Bible is eavesdropping on an ancient spiritual journey recorded over a thousand years span of time by different writers, under different circumstances, and for different reasons.
You simply haven't the faith to view Scripture as it really is. The Bible IS worth reading--but not as a sanitized and artificially well-behaved version that tells us what to do and think on every line. It is diverse, inconsistent, sometimes improper and once in awhile bizarre. It models for us OUR journeys of faith, unless you don't rely upon faith but upon rules. Then you become a Pharisee.
The NT Jews saw a completely different story in the OT---one with a surprise ending to Israels' story---Jesus. Crucified and then raised from the dead. By anyone's standards at that time, messiahs weren't supposed to do that.
When we choose the riskier path of following Jesus' journey through the Scripture in a scholastic fashion, we don't remain the same. We change for the better. We find a deeper and more meaningful faith.
It begins with faith founded in the Love of God---and when that faith is founded in love--it's very easy for anyone to spot.
I've been where you are now--but you've never walked where I have--and without finding that love which everyone can see---you won't.
Most importantly, students learn that the value of arguing is about the “principle” of the matter.
In this case--the principle of the matter---is the Love of God.
You never question Scripture but brag about your Jewish knowledge of the OT. In fact, you appear completely ignorant of the fact that the entire Jewish tradition is WRESTLING with Scripture. Just as the Jews did in Jesus' time.
Disagreements are preserved not silenced or marginalized in official core texts of Judaism like the Talmud and medieval commentaries on the Bible. Opposing opinions often sit side by side.
You are one of those children who was prematurely taught and have been kept from understanding Scripture completely. Your posts reveal one who is at best been fed milk, and at worst one who has drunk at a poisonous well.
You know neither Scripture, nor its Jewish authors and commentators who welcomed diverse opinions in order to form more perfect ideas.
To you the Bible is a cookbook. Follow the recipes and the result is a given. Reading the Bible is eavesdropping on an ancient spiritual journey recorded over a thousand years span of time by different writers, under different circumstances, and for different reasons.
You simply haven't the faith to view Scripture as it really is. The Bible IS worth reading--but not as a sanitized and artificially well-behaved version that tells us what to do and think on every line. It is diverse, inconsistent, sometimes improper and once in awhile bizarre. It models for us OUR journeys of faith, unless you don't rely upon faith but upon rules. Then you become a Pharisee.
The NT Jews saw a completely different story in the OT---one with a surprise ending to Israels' story---Jesus. Crucified and then raised from the dead. By anyone's standards at that time, messiahs weren't supposed to do that.
When we choose the riskier path of following Jesus' journey through the Scripture in a scholastic fashion, we don't remain the same. We change for the better. We find a deeper and more meaningful faith.
It begins with faith founded in the Love of God---and when that faith is founded in love--it's very easy for anyone to spot.
I've been where you are now--but you've never walked where I have--and without finding that love which everyone can see---you won't.
Most importantly, students learn that the value of arguing is about the “principle” of the matter.
In this case--the principle of the matter---is the Love of God.
Hate to break it to you, but none of these are direct quotes. If I attempt to quote something I've read in canon and write it down, is it scripture? In the same way, neither was anything they may have written about it considered canon at the time of Jesus, as Brittanica and host of other references attest to. Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Again, none of these are direct quotes either. As I said, if someone decides to discuss the scriptures and writes ABOUT THEM, that's not the same as the Holy Ghost inspired scriptures. And again, the disciples and Jesus were more of a reliable witness to what was considered canon 2000 years ago. You're a little late to the party.
Actually, you're making my point more than yours, because nothing NEW has been added, which makes it even more obvious they are just discussing what was in place already. Peace
That's all you got? really? that because they are not direct quotes they cannot be scripture. You obviously have never read the New Testament because if that is all you got then NOTHING in the Old Testament is scripture as many of the NT writers paraphrase OT verses.
And you still have not addressed why the canon has changed over the years. Did God somehow make a mistake the first few times so had to readress the canon and have books added to it and books taken away from it?
Great post Pneuma! I am a Christian dealing with the fact that the missing books of the Bible are missing due to some cover up or some reasoning the church father's did not want the world and Especially, the Hebrews to know the truth.
The book of Jasher is a book that is quoted in the scriptures. If the people in the Bible referred to these books, and used them as a means to walk in obedience to the commandments of the Most High, then why are they not being used for teaching and preaching in our churches?
Thanks hickoryfan, it is for people like you who are not afraid to look into these thing I post the things I do.
Jude also quotes a prophesy from the first book of Enoch, yet the only canon that contains the first book of Enoch is the Ethiopian canon.
According to the apocryphal books themselves he did. For example, here is an example of a few of the sayings of Jesus as taken from the Gospel According to Thomas.
***
Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live."
***
Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."
***
Jesus said, "You see the sliver in your friend's eye, but you don't see the timber in your own eye. When you take the timber out of your own eye, then you will see well enough to remove the sliver from your friend's eye."
***
Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole."
***
Jesus said, "There are many standing at the door, but those who are alone will enter the bridal suite."
***
Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
***
Jesus said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called the child of a *****."
***
Jesus said, "One can't enter a strong person's house and take it by force without tying his hands. Then one can loot his house."
You never question Scripture but brag about your Jewish knowledge of the OT. In fact, you appear completely ignorant of the fact that the entire Jewish tradition is WRESTLING with Scripture. Just as the Jews did in Jesus' time.
Disagreements are preserved not silenced or marginalized in official core texts of Judaism like the Talmud and medieval commentaries on the Bible. Opposing opinions often sit side by side.
You are one of those children who was prematurely taught and have been kept from understanding Scripture completely. Your posts reveal one who is at best been fed milk, and at worst one who has drunk at a poisonous well.
You know neither Scripture, nor its Jewish authors and commentators who welcomed diverse opinions in order to form more perfect ideas.
To you the Bible is a cookbook. Follow the recipes and the result is a given. Reading the Bible is eavesdropping on an ancient spiritual journey recorded over a thousand years span of time by different writers, under different circumstances, and for different reasons.
You simply haven't the faith to view Scripture as it really is. The Bible IS worth reading--but not as a sanitized and artificially well-behaved version that tells us what to do and think on every line. It is diverse, inconsistent, sometimes improper and once in awhile bizarre. It models for us OUR journeys of faith, unless you don't rely upon faith but upon rules. Then you become a Pharisee.
The NT Jews saw a completely different story in the OT---one with a surprise ending to Israels' story---Jesus. Crucified and then raised from the dead. By anyone's standards at that time, messiahs weren't supposed to do that.
When we choose the riskier path of following Jesus' journey through the Scripture in a scholastic fashion, we don't remain the same. We change for the better. We find a deeper and more meaningful faith.
It begins with faith founded in the Love of God---and when that faith is founded in love--it's very easy for anyone to spot.
I've been where you are now--but you've never walked where I have--and without finding that love which everyone can see---you won't.
Most importantly, students learn that the value of arguing is about the “principle” of the matter.
In this case--the principle of the matter---is the Love of God.
When Pharisees speak of God's wrath against sin---it is always someone else's sin---never their own.
Matt 23:11-15
A pharusee of a pharusee?
Even so the Lord sent his prophets. Are you willing to remember what was said of dogs.? AND sorcerors?
Isaiah 56King James Version (KJV)
56 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
A pharusee of a pharusee?
Even so the Lord sent his prophets. Are you willing to remember what was said of dogs.? AND sorcerors?
Isaiah 56King James Version (KJV)
56 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
Every Scripture word you wrote was written to Jews who had escaped the 2nd exile.
Quote:
Trito-Isaiah/Third Isaiah (chapters 55–66): A collection of oracles by unknown prophets in the years immediately after the return from Babylon
Had nothing to do with Jesus until the NT authors REINTERPRETED the OT to include Jesus. And there is nothing intrinsically wrong when people meet Jesus and then see, after the fact, events taking place in their lives where they suddenly realize Jesus was present.
P.S. Even very conservative theologians think the KJV is inferior to other translations:
Quote:
Translations [of Isaiah] are the shortest forms of commentaries; they range from tight, literal translations to free paraphrases. It is often helpful to consult translations to see the way the text has been interpreted. To do this well, however, would require some facility with the Hebrew text; but if you are not able to do that, then the better commentaries will have to be used.
The Authorized Version is still superior to many that are out today. It was a remarkable piece of work given the manuscripts that they had. You might wish to look at the New King James Version which modernized and corrected the AV but retained its essential nature. It is very good for public reading.
The Douay Version has undergone many changes like the AV. This is almost like the Vulgate of Jerome.
The Old Revised Version (1883-1885) is good for the original text as well as textual criticism and philology.
The Emphasized Bible can be helpful as a good window to the Hebrew; it marks the commentary work of Delitzsch.
Moffett, Old Testament in 1926, and the complete work in 1933, is written in everyday English. It was influenced by Deissmann, using the common language of the people. It is old line liberal, offering emendations without notice, but fresh and literal.
The Revised Standard Version of 1952 was a very conservative translation with regard to text, grammar, and philology, especially in comparison to other translations. It does resort to higher critical ideas, but usually puts the changes in footnotes. The big change was that they tried to put the Semitic view forward; they thought that the text was not always Messianic where it had been so interpreted, that the AV had read much of the NT back into the text. They simply tried to see what the original writers saw; but they have little emphasis on one mind, the unity of revelation leading to Christ. It ended up with somewhat of a skeptical American viewpoint. But in grammar and syntax and philology, good.
Dr Ross joined the faculty of Beeson Divinity School in 2002 as Beeson Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew. He is the author of Introducing Biblical Hebrew and Grammar, Holiness to the Lord: A Guide to the Exposition of the Book of Leviticus,Creation and Blessing: A Guide to the Study and Exposition of Genesis, and Recalling the Hope of Glory: Biblical Worship from the Garden to the New Creation.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 08-18-2017 at 11:11 PM..
Had nothing to do with Jesus until the NT authors REINTERPRETED the OT to include Jesus. And there is nothing intrinsically wrong when people meet Jesus and then see, after the fact, events taking place in their lives where they suddenly realize Jesus was present.
What I posted was Paul's letter through Christ's teaching an lesson to be heeded, from the scriptures that are Divinely inspired.
What I posted was Paul's letter through Christ's teaching an lesson to be heeded, from the scriptures that are Divinely inspired.
And your response is?
So Paul wrote Isaiah 56?
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