Racial tension in Chicago? (Cicero, Addison: homes, income, prices)

[skyeINIL]

Originally Posted by misspetite

Well that'll happen off gp, but you won't have trouble getting an apt.

I've gotten as many dirty looks from black people than I have from white people. It doesn't even phase me.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Yes it is. It's not at stampede levels yet, but just try house hunting a bit around there. Prices in Irving Park are astronomical. It's mostly re-habbers right now, but the teardowns will unfortunately follow eventually. There are a LOT of professionals moving to Irving Park/Independence Park these days.

Commercial development always trails residential change by at least a few years, so just hold your horses. Urban Planners always lament this phenomenon.

I have house-hunted here, if nothing else than out of curiosity for what stuff is going for in this neighborhood. And best I can tell, real estate prices are still a good 1/3 to 1/2 lower than comparable properties in the actual destination neighborhoods. Right down the street from me there's a 2-bed 2-bath gut-rehabbed condo that's been on the market for at least a year and a half because their $259K asking price is way too steep for this neighborhood; whereas at that price in, say, Bucktown or Lakeview the real estate agent wouldn't have finished putting the sign in the yard before the place sold. There's a 1200sqft rehabbed 2-bedroom 1-bath condo right across the street from me languishing on the market for $225K. That's a lot of space for that kind of money. There are some expensive properties here but those are big houses. A huge 3-story house down the street from me just sold for 850K that would have easily fetched 2 million in a true destination neighborhood. You can still get a single-family house here for well under 400 grand. A block away from me, a modest but attractive and-well maintained 2-story house a on a corner lot sat on the market for over a year at $375K. Just up the street from there, a 2.5 story house needing updating sold for $350K -- including the vacant lot next to it. These are not "astronomical" numbers by Chicago standards. Not even close.

[skyeINIL]

Originally Posted by Drover

You can still get a single-family house here for well under 400 grand.

Whoa. I didn't know that. Maybe buying a home won't be out of the question, even in two years.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by skye1974

Whoa. I didn't know that. Maybe buying a home won't be out of the question, even in two years.

You could even find something in the $300K range if you're willing to live with a house that hasn't had interior updates in a while.

[Gtownoe]

Originally Posted by Drover

I have house-hunted here, if nothing else than out of curiosity for what stuff is going for in this neighborhood. And best I can tell, real estate prices are still a good 1/3 to 1/2 lower than comparable properties in the actual destination neighborhoods. Right down the street from me there's a 2-bed 2-bath gut-rehabbed condo that's been on the market for at least a year and a half because their $259K asking price is way too steep for this neighborhood; whereas at that price in, say, Bucktown or Lakeview the real estate agent wouldn't have finished putting the sign in the yard before the place sold. There's a 1200sqft rehabbed 2-bedroom 1-bath condo right across the street from me languishing on the market for $225K. That's a lot of space for that kind of money. There are some expensive properties here but those are big houses. A huge 3-story house down the street from me just sold for 850K that would have easily fetched 2 million in a true destination neighborhood. You can still get a single-family house here for well under 400 grand. A block away from me, a modest but attractive and-well maintained 2-story house a on a corner lot sat on the market for over a year at $375K. Just up the street from there, a 2.5 story house needing updating sold for $350K -- including the vacant lot next to it. These are not "astronomical" numbers by Chicago standards. Not even close.

I didn't know prices were that low in that area. That may be a place I'll have to check out. Not sure of your level of expertise in this area (but you seem to know everything about the city...ha ha) but I know that the Chicago housing market is relatively stable compared to the rest of the country. Have you noticed any drops or rises in the past 6 months in the market? I'm looking to buy in the next year possibly and I'm trying to take full advantage of the housing slump.

[aragx6]

I've been watching prices in Wicker Park and some have dropped and others haven't. there's actually a 2/2 on the market in the heart of Wicker Park for 289k, but there are also 1/1s in that area in the high 2s as well. A lot of rehabs have been on the market since last spring in the area. If they won't drop the prices I doubt they'll ever sell.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Drover

I have house-hunted here, if nothing else than out of curiosity for what stuff is going for in this neighborhood. And best I can tell, real estate prices are still a good 1/3 to 1/2 lower than comparable properties in the actual destination neighborhoods. Right down the street from me there's a 2-bed 2-bath gut-rehabbed condo that's been on the market for at least a year and a half because their $259K asking price is way too steep for this neighborhood; whereas at that price in, say, Bucktown or Lakeview the real estate agent wouldn't have finished putting the sign in the yard before the place sold. There's a 1200sqft rehabbed 2-bedroom 1-bath condo right across the street from me languishing on the market for $225K. That's a lot of space for that kind of money. There are some expensive properties here but those are big houses. A huge 3-story house down the street from me just sold for 850K that would have easily fetched 2 million in a true destination neighborhood. You can still get a single-family house here for well under 400 grand. A block away from me, a modest but attractive and-well maintained 2-story house a on a corner lot sat on the market for over a year at $375K. Just up the street from there, a 2.5 story house needing updating sold for $350K -- including the vacant lot next to it. These are not "astronomical" numbers by Chicago standards. Not even close.

I didn't say it had arrived, just that it's gentrifying. A decade ago it looked like Irving Park would be almost entirely Hispanic within a few years, and that trend is now sort of reversing as people are priced out of Lakeview, Roscoe Village, etc. Avondale is also gentrifying to the south, though it also has a long way to go. I think either of these neighborhoods would be a wise investment right now--for a single family house. I'm not sure the condo market will ever be great in such a low-density part of the city. I wouldn't invest in a condo there.

I've been casually looking for a decent 3-BR 2-Bath SF house for a couple of years now, and haven't seen anything in Irving Park for under $550,000 that wouldn't require a ton of work (or that wasn't too small). Most of the nice restored historic houses in the Old Irving section are now well above $600,000, and they're not huge. This is not cheap housing by Chicago standards, even though it's quite obviously cheaper than anything in a premier neighborhood.

I'm not trying to pick an argument with you Drover, but it is quite clear to me that Irving Park is gentrifying. How long will it take to be totally transformed? That's hard to say. When will the hip bars come in? Maybe never. It's more of a family-style gentrification instead of a young, hip, artsy sort of gentrification.

[Drover]

Well this is the neighborhood I live in, walk through, play in, dine in, etc., and I'm just not seeing this gentrification you're talking about. This neighborhood is still solidly blue-collar and at least plurality Hispanic (if not outright majority) with a handful of professionals living in some condos and in the restored single-family homes. And that's not a new thing either -- Old Irving has been something of an "exclusive" pocket for 10 to 15 years now. It's not like people are just now noticing and flocking to those homes and lovingly restoring those poor, dilapidated piles of driftwood. And homes over there may not be huge, but they're certainly a lot bigger than your standard Chicago Bungalow, and they're typically sitting on extra-wide or even double lots so they actually have yards and stuff. $600K may sound steep, but reference your own article where a restored home sold listed for $700K almost 10 years ago. So what we're seeing now isn't a massive surge in home prices in Old Irving; if anything prices have basically just been keeping pace with local market trends.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Drover

Huh?? I live in Irving Park and I can tell you that gentrification is virtually a non-issue here. There are a few condo buildings going up here and there, but it's mostly on major arteries (Irving Park Rd in particular) while the residential side streets haven't changed much since the 20s/30s/40s. Believe me, there is nothing like a developer stampede here. A good 20% of the storefronts in this neighborhood are empty. A destination/gentrifying neighborhood, this isn't.

Yet. It will be soon.

[Chiguy1957]

Hmmm...could someone define the boundaries of "Irving Park"? Aren't Irving and Old Irving 2 distinctly different neighborhoods?