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I think for a lot of people in the suburbs socialization is centered around kids. My Brother in law and his family knew a few families in their suburban neighborhood when the kids were young. As the kids have gotten older they've know fewer and fewer people in their neighborhood (no more trick or treating, b-day parties, etc). At this point they really don't know anybody around them. I think it's also important to note, even when they did know their neighbors they really didn't like many of them. I always felt a lot of weirdness at my nieces' b-day parties and such.
They're planning on moving once the youngest one heads off to college.
Totally agree. Thinking back to when I grew up, my neighbors and parents' relationships were mostly about kids. In the beginning, someone would have a Christmas/holiday party every year (no kids) and then that stopped about four years after my parents built their house. They have been there for over 20 years now, and this last year they told me someone finally started doing the holiday parties again.
My mom (who is from just outside of NYC) is very social (my dad is not nearly as much) and she would talk to our immediate neighbors a lot if they saw each other outside, but not many others. My next door neighbors were also from a large city in China so they were always social if they saw us outside. Outside of that though, not much. They'd only talk to each other when it was about the kids, or some neighbor was trying to get some petition signed. Speaking of which, now that I think of it...one of my neighbors down the street had to be one of the biggest NIMBYs ever. I remember him going door to door to block a bed and breakfast being built about 100 feet behind his house (everyone on my block had at least a quarter to half acre). He was just like "Do YOU want people you don't know passing by your place!?"
I get that people want to keep private BUT you can do that in the city easily. My private life to my neighbors here (I live in a high rise) is pretty private. To my friends, that's different since I am a very transparent person.
The only thing I miss about not having a home to my own is the fact I could sing as loudly as I wanted, play my guitar as loud as I wanted to without anyone complaining. I can't really do that here (although I have said "**** it" and sang loudly a few times). If you have a band too, there's cheap practice spaces out there anyway or someone may have a house, or just live in a small building where nobody cares about it.
Irishtom is like the Grandpa Simpson of the Chicago city-data forum. Half the time we don't know what he's talking about, but we still love him.
That's kind of you, you take my ribbing of Oak Park in good humor, so much so that I feel kind'a guilty when I do it, not wanting to offend you. Maybe that's your intention, clever.
That's kind of you, you take my ribbing of Oak Park in good humor, so much so that I feel kind'a guilty when I do it, not wanting to offend you. Maybe that's your intention, clever.
No kidding. Many people are spontaneous, or they like the life that is human interaction and not this life where you know a few of your neighbors and that's the most interaction you ever do in your normal, daily life. You don't walk from point A to point B with other people with that social interaction. You go from your house, to your car, not dealing with anybody at all, to your final point where you may deal with others, yes. Some suburbs do it right and they're usually the older ones, but the newer cookie cutter ones is the same thing. Very anti social when you think about it. If that's your thing, then by all means go for it.
Also in the end, it may be closer than you think with COL.
* City: Pretend I have a one bedroom in Lakeview for $1150/month for my place and about $70/month in transportation costs to use public transit. My area is highly walkable too and I have everything I need for daily life within a short walk.
* Suburb: Pretend I pay $800/month for a nice apartment, and I have a car so that's $50/month in insurance let's say and $150/month in gas.
That's really $1000/month in the suburbs versus $1220/month in the city. I also on the drop of a pin can just walk outside and do whatever the hell I want at any hour of the day basically (yes, there's 24 hour places near me actually, or late night ones). In most of the suburbs, not so much.
Also, it could be very well that I don't own the car I drive in the burbs. That could be a car payment each month of anywhere from say $170 to $350/month (or more if it's a nicer car). In that case, it actually ends up being more expensive in the burbs or very very close after all is said and done.
People like to say "Well the rent is higher in ____." That's not the full picture. You have more expenses every month than just what you pay in housing. The difference between the burbs and city for housing+transit sometimes isn't large enough where it's ALWAYS cheaper to live in the burbs. I have a friend who lives in Palatine in a nice place for $900/month and not too much bigger than my downtown apartment. He also needs a car there, and in the end, our housing+transportation costs every month are not that much different. I think I pay like $50/month more than him after all is said and done and this is me downtown. If I lived in Lakeview or Lincoln Square, he'd definitely be paying more than me.
This was interesting to me. I just moved here from Phoenix and live in Pilsen, one block from the pink line.
My apartment was recently rehabbed and beautiful with central a/c, laundry on-site, and free parking for $700 among other amenities. I can walk to anything I may need daily (groceries, etc).
My friend has an apartment in Wicker Park, has a roommate, lives in a tiny bedroom a desk cannot even fit in and pays $900 for his portion. He has gotten 5 parking tickets, there's no air conditioning and he has to go to a laundromat.
I share this to illustrate the difference in priorities. While I may not live in what is deemed a "cool" neighborhood, I can easily manage my rent, utilities, etc.
I also find it interesting to compare to Phoenix as well. I lived in a 2 bedroom apartment slightly uptown for $735 and was within walking distance to the light rail. While I own my vehicle (thus, no payments), I was easily spending $350-$400 on gas (more in the summer) because public transportation doesn't get you anywhere you need to be. The closest Whole Foods to me was 20+ miles one way, my family was 30+ miles one way. My electric bills averaged $100 (winter) - $300 (summer).
I spend less in Chicago. No more than $1,000/month for transportation and rent, utilities. Probably not even $900.
While I understand Phoenix is not Chicago, etc etc... I couldn't stand driving. I was hit in Phoenix 3x in a year and I'm so over it. The hassle, all of it. I'm much happier here and love everything being within walking distance.
Sorry for your deficient childhood but in my suburban neighborhood I spend quite a bit of time socializing with friends that live nearby. Further I have volunteered for things related to the park district, library, school board, village government and other civic activities that are the domain of corrupt politicians in Chicago.
The alleged "spontaneity" of city life is more a function of folks that due to age / lack of career / no family are likely to do "down for anything" and "responsible for nothing" -- hardly something to be proud of!
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
This is what I hate. People in the suburbs do sometimes know each other, as neighbors. I think it's rare for them to "hang out" especially when they have families, but it's possible. But on a daily basis, the most interaction you do is going to the store (which isn't even daily because most people just buy in bulk for a few weeks or month). Even then, some people completely stick to themselves.
I much prefer the spontaneity of the city, even in areas where it's pretty laid back and not terribly urban. I also like the fact that I can interact with people of TONS of different cultures, religions, etc on a daily basis without even trying. Or the fact that if I'm hungry at midnight on a Friday and want some sushi, I can just walk out of my place, walk a few blocks, and do it. I like the fact that I don't have to care about how much I drink (this doesn't happen as much anymore of course, but every blue moon) and don't have to care about driving home drunk and all that crap. In the city, I walk outside and I have numerous options of where to go to do my daily life or just hang out wherever.
I grew up in a suburban setting and to be honest, I couldn't see myself living in an urban one. As I got older, things kind of changed. Now I couldn't see myself living anywhere but a walkable city.
this thread is getting off topic, some people will prefer city, some-burbs, they are different, each with both pros and cons, and it doesnt make sense to argue whats better, its all based on a personal preference, someone likes urban, walkable atmosphere, but another likes "bland" suburban peace and quiet, and nobody would be wrong for liking what they like, its like arguing which genre of music is better...i like suburbs more, but its good to learn all the options
i was jus wondering about some of the differences, esp relating to unique local aspect of chicago vs its burbs
Unless you lived in some suburb of Lincoln Nebraska I cannot imagine that you had to drive AN HOUR to find ETHNIC FOOD -- in all honestly even the most car centric suburb in the far reaches of DuPage, Lake or suburban Cook is loaded with places that have terrific Thai food, great Pho shops, awesome Indian / Pakistani places and often tons of good places for Italian, Greek or Mexican too...
There are opportunities to see live comedy in Naperville, Vernon Hills and the various historic theatre venues along the Fox River.
Live music is definately more plentiful in Chicago but many nightspots have a wide range of bands performing. Two Brothers Brewery is doing an awesome job with the Round House property out in Aurora and the traditon of live music at Fitzgeralds in Berwyn has been a staple of suburban music fans for decades
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiNaan
For sure. When I lived in the burbs I found it to be the opposite of comfortable or convenient to drive an hour each way any time I wanted to see a band, hear a comedian, eat obscure ethnic food, go on dates, or be around like-minded people in a place that didn't depress the hell out of me...not to mention having to choose between driving or getting a hotel room after drinking. It's also quite a bit less convenient to have to get in the car to go to the nearest grocery store, coffee shop, restaurant, or bar rather than walking a block.
Sorry for your deficient childhood but in my suburban neighborhood I spend quite a bit of time socializing with friends that live nearby. Further I have volunteered for things related to the park district, library, school board, village government and other civic activities that are the domain of corrupt politicians in Chicago.
The alleged "spontaneity" of city life is more a function of folks that due to age / lack of career / no family are likely to do "down for anything" and "responsible for nothing" -- hardly something to be proud of!
Cool, so you're fine. And some suburbs are set up more for that, especially ones on smaller lots and the older burbs. However, many burbs now are a lot more spread out.
There's nothing wrong or bad about preferring the city to the suburbs. I hate the suburbs, sorry. Just can't stand it. You prefer the suburbs and that's fine, but don't give me or anybody else **** for it. Everyone likes different things and I'm sorry Chet, but I've lived in both suburbia and urban and urbanity is much more spontaneous. There are some suburbs which are fine, they're the older ones, but most suburbs today are cookie cutter subdivisions FAR from anything and the people are very to themselves and it's not that common to have people from 5 houses down hanging out and everyone in the neighborhood just doing that. I'm talking about suburbs where everyone is on a half acre or more of a lot.
Just because I live in the city doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I've lived in both environments.
Some suburbs do it right and they're usually the older ones, but the newer cookie cutter ones is the same thing.
The thing that a lot of people don't realize about Chicagoland (and I'm not lumping you in with this, Marothisu, because you seem very knowledgable) is that there are really quite a few older suburbs to choose from, or at least suburbs that have a sizable older section. Most of them are old "railroad suburbs" that grew up around passenger rail service more than 100 years ago. Actually, many city neighborhoods also started out as "railroad suburbs" before they were annexed in to Chicago.
I have to agree with you in terms of distaste for the drive-everywhere post-war suburban development, though some of those neighborhoods don't require as many automobile miles as they may first seem. A lot of that is pretty old now too, and some people from smaller metros are shocked when they move to the Chicago burbs that they really have to go very far out to find a house built within the last ten years, unless it is a teardown situation.
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So wrong!
I cannot imagine that you had to drive AN HOUR to find ETHNIC FOOD 
-- in all honestly even the most car centric suburb in the far reaches of DuPage, Lake or suburban Cook is loaded with places that have terrific Thai food, great Pho shops, awesome Indian / Pakistani places and often tons of good places for Italian, Greek or Mexican too...
