Chicago is Booming! (Lincoln, Washington, Columbia: unemployment rate, incomes, disposal)

[Chicago3rd]

Was up visiting my city this past weekend. Was lucky enough to live through the bust (kidding), and I am sorry...but from what I saw and felt from downtown up north was a new boom starting. Lots of new construction and projects that were talked about (from high-rises and condos to theaters and stores) built already or being built. The buses and L seemed just as busy. Was excited to see the doom and gloom off the streets (face it Chicago got hit hard...I was a victim) and will be moving and staying forever in Chicago soon. Yes...this was very antidocical, but better than out dated streetview reviews.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Maintainschaos

lol you don't even know what the word estimate means...And I guess you forgot about this gem that you previously posted:



I also love that your arguments are so terrible that in the same your same quoted source there are TWO estimates for the Chicago 2012 population:

Population (2012 Estimate)[1][2]
• City 2,874,312

Est. 2012 2,661,951 −1.2%

Neither have any citations for any data about 2012!

This clown's ridiculous.

Of course he is. He contradicts himself in almost every post.

Anyway, official census estimates show Chicago growing.

Chicago (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Of course he is. He contradicts himself in almost every post.

Anyway, official census estimates show Chicago growing.

Chicago (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

No one would seriously consider a 15 month population uptick of 0.4% a "booming" increase. Coupled with the less than impressive numbers of persons under 18 it is no wonder that CPS is still facing a massive number of school closings.
There are certsinly shifts in population that continue to increase the density of areas near-ish to the lake but the overall trends in some of the less "post college" oriented parts of Chicago continue to be troubling. Shifts in the desirabilty of areas that were traditionally attractive to higher paid city workers are getting "long in the tooth" -- as prices are depressed that will but pressure to raise tax rates...

Even in the areas "benefitting" from gentrification the long term viability of areas that are largely filled with entertainment seeking singles may prove illusory -- cities around the world have traditionaly had relatively modest sized entertainment districts as the synergy of having such businesses clusterd together tends to increase the value of all sites inside such a district. Especially given our climate a compact district is very advantageous. I suspect many folks will find out the hard way that merely having an attractively youthful population base is not going to sustain long term business. As people age the percentage of income they spend on entertainment tends to fall off, given the difficult economy that fall of good be especially precipitous.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by key4lp

So ethnic, financial and age diversity is just limited to Mexicans, Polish and Yuppies?
Sure people left areas as you mentioned but read CD about those who reside in "yuppie" areas & how
they decide to leave once their children have to start school (then its time to move).
Good that Logan Square has a market but there are several ethnic neighborhoods which are
in jeopardy of losing their identity and businesses because the people moving in are not supporting
the local businesses and prefer the unique choices from Target, Walmart, CVS, Costco, Dominicks...
Plus the people who managed to preserve that neighborhood were & are being priced out.
What some of us who are older than you and remember neighborhoods where young and old
of different financial classes lived together and actually spoke to each other while respecting
and embracing all cultures and supporting the mom & pop stores.

Oh come on. The original point I was making was that the decline of businesses along Milwaukee happened decades ago, long before gentrification was an issue in Logan Square. It was due to forces other than new people moving in.

Saying I'm too young to remember when it was thriving proves my original point (that would mean pre-1970, when I was old enough to actually remember things). I've lived in cities pretty much my entire life, and I remember the recession of the 70's and the decline of manufacturing the 80's. I've seen people staying indoors more in the summer as air conditioning became more common and things like Cable TV, VCRs, and the internet led to people staying indoors more. If it makes you happy to shake your fist and mutter about "yuppies" and "hipsters" - fine. I'll add that to the list of things that killed off street life - cranky old guys who spend their time judging and pidgeonholeing others instead of actually talking to people around them.

[prelude91]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Even in the areas "benefitting" from gentrification the long term viability of areas that are largely filled with entertainment seeking singles may prove illusory -- cities around the world have traditionaly had relatively modest sized entertainment districts as the synergy of having such businesses clusterd together tends to increase the value of all sites inside such a district. Especially given our climate a compact district is very advantageous. I suspect many folks will find out the hard way that merely having an attractively youthful population base is not going to sustain long term business. As people age the percentage of income they spend on entertainment tends to fall off, given the difficult economy that fall of good be especially precipitous.

Perhaps, but there will always be "young people"; and as long as educated young people choose to move to the core of our cities, these entertainment districts will thrive. Nobody can predict the future, but I don't see a large shift of young (educated) people choosing the suburbs over the city in my lifetime, and I am 30.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by NearWestSider

I lived on Campbell just south of Fullerton in 1977. Back in those days it wasn't Logan Square, nor was it West Bucktown. It was just kind of there, and while it wasn't upscale by any stretch of the imagination, it wasn't awful by any means, either. The fact that you even consider anything in the Western/Milwaukee/Fullerton triangle part of Logan Square - and the fact that you consider it some kind of ghetto - shows YOUR roots in that area are not very deep.

No, I am talking about Milwaukee from Diversey south to Fullerton, the heart of Logan Square. I owned a two flat right off Logan Boulevard just East of Kedzie in 1985, long before you or your friends moved in.

I have no idea why you even mentioned it, but when I lived in Logan, the Congress theater was a movie house specializing in Mexican Ranchero movies. The only reason I know it was there is because El Cid Tacos was my go-to taco joint way back then, and it used to be just south of it (before they opened the one on Kedzie).

The Mega Mall was once a window factory, and that strip of Milwaukee has never fully recovered from its closing. Fortunately, Father and Son Pizza is still going strong, otherwise that stretch would be a complete desert.

Bottom line: I am dumbfounded how anyone could say that Milwaukee Avenue is in better shape today. Hell, even the Miami-style Cuban coffee joint I used to get espresso shots and Cuban sandwiches at (you know, the one North of the boulevard half way to Diversey) has gone pretentious/upscale with very little business to show for it. Tania's is gone. I can go on and on, but if you really want to believe that Milwaukee Avenue is booming because a bunch of scruffy-looking, low-income American drop-outs have moved in, you are welcome to your opinion.

Scruffy-looking, low-income drop-outs? When you aren't busy abusing the concept of hyphenation, do you ever look at real estate & rental listings in Logan Square? Both sides of Milwaukee Ave are rather expensive and increasingly upper-middle class these days.

As for who is and who isn't supporting the "ethnic" shops, I'd say both low-income folks and yuppies both are guilty as hell when it comes to not looking at the bigger picture and shopping at Wal Mart and Target.

The fact is, 1st generation kids grow up knowing English and they don't like being handicapped/shoehorned into only shops catering to their ethnicity.

A few friends went to Endy's last weekend and were somewhat startled that the proprietor spoke only Polish and not a word of English though, so have no fear, plenty of ethnic places are doing well in the larger area.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Attrill

Oh come on. The original point I was making was that the decline of businesses along Milwaukee happened decades ago, long before gentrification was an issue in Logan Square. It was due to forces other than new people moving in.

Saying I'm too young to remember when it was thriving proves my original point (that would mean pre-1970, when I was old enough to actually remember things). I've lived in cities pretty much my entire life, and I remember the recession of the 70's and the decline of manufacturing the 80's. I've seen people staying indoors more in the summer as air conditioning became more common and things like Cable TV, VCRs, and the internet led to people staying indoors more. If it makes you happy to shake your fist and mutter about "yuppies" and "hipsters" - fine. I'll add that to the list of things that killed off street life - cranky old guys who spend their time judging and pidgeonholeing others instead of actually talking to people around them.

I'm not sure you can reason with someone who says things like "prefer the unique choices from Target, Walmart, CVS, Costco, Dominicks..."

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out what the hell that means... the vast majority of items in those stores are either made in China or are foodstuffs made by Fortune 500 companies. Maybe he is thinking Walgreen's "As Seen on TV!" aisle constitutes uniqueness (I admit I am a sucker for some of that stuff).

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by prelude91

Nobody can predict the future, but I don't see a large shift of young (educated) people choosing the suburbs over the city in my lifetime, and I am 30.

It appears to me the suburbs are chock full of young people. Even educated ones.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by prelude91

Perhaps, but there will always be "young people"; and as long as educated young people choose to move to the core of our cities, these entertainment districts will thrive. Nobody can predict the future, but I don't see a large shift of young (educated) people choosing the suburbs over the city in my lifetime, and I am 30.

Yep. I also can't think of any parts of the city that have lost entertainment options due to an aging population. Old Town has certainly held onto businesses, Andersonville has as well. While I would agree that people's spending on entertainment drops as a percentage of their income as they age it also increases in total dollars as people make more money.

My wife and I actually eat out more now that we have a kid, since our schedules are tighter and it's easier just to go out for dinner. We're also getting meals for 3 people now as well, so that increases our spending too.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by prelude91

Perhaps, but there will always be "young people"; and as long as educated young people choose to move to the core of our cities, these entertainment districts will thrive. Nobody can predict the future, but I don't see a large shift of young (educated) people choosing the suburbs over the city in my lifetime, and I am 30.

The bulge in population already shows the effects of Chicago being not dominated overall by the right out of college set but by those decades older --

Things are only gonna get worse, as the birth rates are declining.
As U.S. birth rate drops, concern for the future mounts

Even I have to admit that I was surprised to see the population growth rate of staid DuPage Co so much higher than Chicago -- DuPage County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau but it is confirmation of what others have said about the difficulty when shopping for a desirable family home...

Not surprisingly even Kane Co, with its acres of undeveloped raw land is still the fastest growing in the region -- Kane County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau and no doubt its utter lack of public transit infrastructure causes the egg head urbanistas to weep, though one need only drive around and see the massive warehouses, distribution centers and light manufacturing facilities that are offering jobs to hordes of lower wage workers to understand what is causing that boom especially while urban sites continue to suffer -- hey look even the real deal Socialist acknowledge that: Unemployment on the rise in virtually every US urban area - World Socialist Web Site