Is the violence in Chicago out of control? (Lincoln, Irving: quality of life, gangs)

[Aleking]

Originally Posted by runninfree

What will that solve? There already is free birth control. Do you really mean forced sterilization? For the entire population of those areas? Do you really believe that everyone in those areas is doing a bad job of raising their children and should not have them?

Please elaborate.

I believe a very large part of the gang/violence problem is the lack of strong parental role models, especially male role models. Having 3 kids before the age of 20 with no fathers in the picture is a recipe for disaster and incredibly common in the areas in question, it leads to high drop out rates and produces kids much more likely to join gangs. We gotta get those birth rates down and no, not forced sterilization, but handing out free condoms is not doing enough.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_168571.html

Robeson High School in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood, there are lots of reasons kids quit school. Pregnancy is definitely one of them. This year so far there are some 80 teen parents at the school. It's a district-wide issue. Yet Chicago Public Schools has nothing in place to address the problem. No prevention, no counseling once teens become parents. Instead it's up to struggling neighborhood high schools like Robeson to figure out what to do.

http://adentrodepilsen.com/adentrode...rce=everyblock

Over the past year, Englewood’s Robeson High School in Chicago has received much publicity around the topic of teen pregnancies coupled with a spiking a dropout rate. Essence magazine, CBS, Chicago Sun-Times and Chicago Tribune all covered the issue surrounding Robeson High School. During the school year of 2009-10, 115 out of 800 girls were pregnant or already mothers at Robeson.



“Family structure has become a major issue, and contributes to more than just distorted families,” Assistant Professor Robert M. Lombardo at Loyola University Chicago says.



Lombardo teaches a course on gang and criminal activity and said that the family structure has changed and have left homes without both parents. This could lead to not only to a life of poverty but many of the male children joining gangs to make money.



These young women are not only more likely to drop out of high school but they are more likely to be on welfare and their children are more likely to grow up in a home without both parents, according to reports by HHS.



“The young women I work with who become pregnant often times find themselves in a cycle. Many of them say they get pregnant to keep the guy around, some say to keep him from going with somebody else, and this usually leads to violence amongst the females,” said Nichole Huser, a social worker for Manley Career Academy High School, Ford Powerhouse Charter School, and the Juvenile Temporary Detention Center. “There is this vicious cycle of violence that can be associated with teen pregnancy, some systematic and some simply on individual levels.”

“The streets are raising these children these days,” Ruben Contreran, age 58, of Pilsen says. “It’s a lot of violence and gangs in these streets, and it’s because a lot of these parents don’t know what their children are doing and the dads aren’t there to help discipline them.”

this is a problem and the easiest link in the circle of poverty to break.

[runninfree]

Originally Posted by Aleking

I believe a very large part of the gang/violence problem is the lack of strong parental role models, especially male role models. Having 3 kids before the age of 20 with no fathers in the picture is a recipe for disaster and incredibly common in the areas in question, it leads to high drop out rates and produces kids much more likely to join gangs. We gotta get those birth rates down and no, not forced sterilization, but handing out free condoms is not doing enough.

Teen Pregnancies Increase School Dropout Rate



Teenage Pregnancy?s Effects on Chicago Communities



this is a problem and the easiest link in the circle of poverty to break.

OK. I agree. The problem is that it's accepted behavior. There is no longer a stigma attached to teenage pregnancy and parents simply ignore that teens are engaging in sexual acticity until it's too late. Then we protest and cut funds for sex education in schools with the argument that it's the parent's job. We need to address the fact that a lot of parents are not doing their job. They have kids, get the benefits, and keep moving leaving the kids to raise themselves. This leaves them susceptible to other influences like gangs or slick guys who convince girls that they love them and will take care of them forever.

It's truly because of low cultural standards, no positive role models, and an entire generation being raised on gangsta rap, welfare benefits, and fast food. I honestly don't blame the kids (in most instances). I blame the parents who don't realize that the poorer you are, the more resources there are available to you or are too lazy and selfish to advocate for their children. The children are left to defend themselves and learn how to get by as best as they can.

[Runuova]

Dang! This thread still going?

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by runninfree

I blame the parents who don't realize that the poorer you are, the more resources there are available to you or are too lazy and selfish to advocate for their children. The children are left to defend themselves and learn how to get by as best as they can.

I agree with all of your points, but the problem is that these parents who you blame grew up in the same cycle of poverty with the same gang-riddled neighborhoods and absent parents. What chance did they ever have? It's the cycle that has to be addressed, because kids don't just magically grow up and become good people. The whole blame the parents attitude is not even technically incorrect, but it's used as scapegoat for social responsibility and yet another way the upper classes wash their hands of the issue.

[Broadrippleguy]

A good point ill make for any city Chicago NYC whatever the size is. If crime takes over your city your city is basically done.

[runninfree]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I agree with all of your points, but the problem is that these parents who you blame grew up in the same cycle of poverty with the same gang-riddled neighborhoods and absent parents. What chance did they ever have? It's the cycle that has to be addressed, because kids don't just magically grow up and become good people. The whole blame the parents attitude is not even technically incorrect, but it's used as scapegoat for social responsibility and yet another way the upper classes wash their hands of the issue.

I don't think it's just the parents because honestly some of them just don't care and aren't interested in actually raising children, but they are the ones who perpetuate the cycle. Sure, they grew up like that but someone has to stop it.

I absolutely believe that there is a community obligation to these kids. Not because they deserve it or we have to step in for absentee parents, but because we are the ones getting robbed so to say it's not our problem is indeed a faulty argument.

Like I said, we need to have afterschool programs and continue funding sports programs and advocate for the YMCA and Boys and Girls club. These are the programs that are helping to raise the ones that do become decent people or at least introducing them to new ideas and ways of life.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I agree with all of your points, but the problem is that these parents who you blame grew up in the same cycle of poverty with the same gang-riddled neighborhoods and absent parents. What chance did they ever have? It's the cycle that has to be addressed, because kids don't just magically grow up and become good people. The whole blame the parents attitude is not even technically incorrect, but it's used as scapegoat for social responsibility and yet another way the upper classes wash their hands of the issue.

This is exactly the problem. People base their decisions and actions (or lack of them) based what they're taught and what they saw growing up. That is one of the big problems with saying things like "kick them off welfare THEN they'll get a job".

For some people their experiences teach them that there's money in drugs, prostitution, burglary, muggings, etc. The people who work are most likely getting minimum wage and have zero job security - their lifestyle is nowhere near as attractive as that of gangbangers.

It is the same problem with an attitude of zero tolerance "lock everyone up". If you send a 17 year old to jail for a non-violent offense they're going to learn to be violent to survive and make connections to criminals of all sorts. I can understand people being angry and wanting tough punishment for criminals, but ultimately it does nothing to solve the larger issues, and actually helps perpetuate the cycle. Non violent offenders need to be kept apart from violent offenders, and given guidance and options to improve themselves while in jail.

Seriously addressing the problem means a generation long commitment to helping kids from pre-natal care through high school or college graduation. It will take at least 10 years to see serious progress. The penal system also needs to be changed so that convicts have some sort of viable means of supporting themselves once they're released. Both cost money that no one wants to spend, so there's no way we're going to see that happen in our lifetimes.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

A good point ill make for any city Chicago NYC whatever the size is. If crime takes over your city your city is basically done.

On the contrary, I think history shows that if your city has enough good things for it, it can endure unbelievable levels of crime and still remain viable long enough to solve the crime problem (New York in the late 80s/early 90s, for example).

[urza216]

Originally Posted by runninfree

Please stop misusing the term ghetto. What does that even mean?

It seems to mean something completely different to everyone who uses it. I'm constantly trying to figure it out on this forum too and I get accused of race baiting when I say what it seems they mean. For some people, "ghetto" seems to just mean "black" - nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe we should just stop using the term altogether and use a word with a definition that everyone agrees on. The N-word has a lot of different meanings but as long as you keep the G-E-R instead of G-A, it's still more clear than the word "ghetto". Or you could always use terms like "poor" and "uneducated" if that's what you're talking about.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by runninfree

I would start with welfare reform. If the parents don't work and receive welfare benefits, they need to perform some community service ie cleaning up the trash in the streets, assisting in the child's classroom, or be cut off. I know we don't have the balls to do that though. We need to start attaching some responsibilities to these incentive programs.

^This.

And I would add that welfare recipients who are convicted of a felony should be cut off as well.