Chicago shrinks by over 200,000 in the 2000's Part 1 (Lincoln, Virginia: homes, unemployment rate)

[Dutchman01]

Many if not most of the once proud cities up north are shrinking.....and fast. It's really quite remarkable. Oh well, if it's any consolation there are still more folks in your city of chicago than in my entire state.

[5Lakes]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Historically middle class people HAVE raised kids in the city; it's only recently (since the late 1960s, recent in historical terms) that the public schools went to Hell. If the schools get fixed (which is IMO a political problem easily solved once the political will is in place) the middle class will stay. If they have jobs.

True, and they still do in other 1st would nations. I don't see this changing any time soon though. I agree that it's an easy correction, I doubt it will change in my lifetime. This is a nation wide problem though, not just a Chicago problem.

[Savoir Faire]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Hopefully, we can get rid of some of the green line stops as there are fewer riders at these stops than in the past. This would make for a quicker and more pleasant commute for me and I wouldn't always have to wait for the next metra train.

Yes, Chicago should reduce services to Chicago residents so we can make life easier for suburbanites. Mayor Bilandic tried this exact thing during the blizzard and lost the election.

[Humboldt1]

Savoir,

Many of the people getting on and off the green line between central and california are non-working poor, with some lower middle class and lower class working people thrown in.

Between 7-9am and 4-7 pm it is mostly working people and you avoid much of the riff raff. After 7pm at night it is not pretty, and after 9pm it gets even worse. I have been harrassed several times by groups of young men and panhandlers while on the train.

Know how many times in 8 years of riding metra (from Itasca, Arlington Heights and Oak Park) I have been harrassed or asked for money? Never.

It is all about the quality of the riders.

Tony,

Sorry we don't agree on this one but dealing with these thigs after a long day at work when I am not able to take metra is a real pain.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by meatpuff

Comparisons to Detroit are way off base. There you have an entire metro (indeed, state) slammed in the one industry that mattered most. And really it has been going on for decades. Illinois employment is relatively healthy and stable, here you just have people shifting around the metro area. The Sun Times is reporting the metro area grew by 280,000 people. Will County added 175,000 folks, almost enough to offset Cook's loss by itself.

Before this Census, I had thought of Chicago as having an increasingly absent middle class (except for city workers, but they are knocking on the door of upper middle class these days, financially if not culturally) with many of the richest and the poorest residents of Chicagoland residing inside the city, plus the young and fabulous. Now we see that many of the poor who *can* manage to get out, are. If the middle class AND poor are leaving, what is left? We will have a better picture when the breakdowns by income come out.

Yes and no.

No, Chicago is no Detroit. And even the metro area is certainly not the same. Chicago is diversified, but that doesn't mean, that Chicagos economy and employment isn't threatened by relocation.

However that depends on how you define metro area. If you consider the combined metro population of Detroit, that technically includes Ann Arbor/Washtenaw county, where there is all kinds of higher skills, high tech employment around there. That has grown the past ten years.

Actually during the 90s, the combined statistical Detroit-Ann Arbor area did actually grow 5.2%, while the Chicago-Kenosha-Gary area, grew I believe 8.5%. There are plenty of subdivisions, condo developments in Oakland and Macomb counties in Michigan built in the 90s/early 2000s.

Speaking of Oakland County, (the county to the northwest of Detroit proper) while certainly dragged down by the problems of Detroit, does not get mentioned much. The County has independently attracted businesses to their corporate suburban campuses and is a huge areas of robotics/automation R&D. Unfortunately some of their biggest clients are the car companies, but not entirely.

Chicago, over the last 40 years, had a portion of its industries decline in stages, meatpacking in the early 70s went out - the southwest side vacated, in the 80s, steel started leaving, later electronics plants and candy factories started closing down. So, the diversification is important, but I wonder if the white collared jobs have really made up for the loss of those huge plants that used to employ thousands


Meanwhile Chicago has headquarters of many corporations and a huge financial district, those banks, corporate centers, can and have move to the booming southern metro areas. One Chicago bank moved to Charlotte, Smurfitt-Stone?(sp) moved to Atlanta, in the 80s, the MERC was even thinking of relocating to Houston.

With the general population and economic migration to different parts of the country, Chicagos corporate centers/banks, etc. are no doubt under threat.

So, yet Chicago is no Detroit, but outside Detroit, you do have more economic diversity, while not enough to make up for manufacturing downsizing and closing, than one might expect,

And Chicago is more diversified, it is by no means immune to the changing patterns of manufacturing and the banks and financial institutions that fincance, insure, and trade on them.

This is not totally a bad thing, Chicago would be better if its smaller. Look at D.C. or San Francisco, these are two cities that have almost everything Chicago has in terms of cultural offerings, but with 1/4 the people.

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by Dutchman01

Many if not most of the once proud cities up north are shrinking.....and fast. It's really quite remarkable. Oh well, if it's any consolation there are still more folks in your city of chicago than in my entire state.

I find it funny. Just wait and see what kind of people the once-proud cities are exporting.

They're all yours, Sunbelt. Again.

[SmartGXL]

This point has been brought up already, but I am going to put my own spin on it.

I think that some parts of the city are growing, while others are shrinking fast and becoming like Detroit.

The "desirable" areas - Gold Coast, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Wicker Park, all the Loop areas, and to a great extent, Lincoln Square-type areas, are growing, while the Englewood-type neighborhoods are emptying out fast and are starting to resemble Detroit.

Many people want to live in the desirable areas, and a lot of people are moving there, speficially young single people from places like MI and Ohio.

But - this is the key. A LOT of the younger crowd just want to live the party lifestyle and nogt have kids or family. So even though people are moving into the nice hoods, they are not having kids either. When you match that up with the south side and west side hoods that are empyting out, it does not surprise me that Chicago has possibly lost 200,000 people.

Hell, I am even thinking about transferring to Dallas in the next 2 months or so.

[SmartGXL]

Originally Posted by coldwine

I find it funny. Just wait and see what kind of people the once-proud cities are exporting.

They're all yours, Sunbelt. Again.

A lot of the people that have left, (cabrini green types and other low income) did not go to the sunbelt, they went to places like Iowa and Minnesota.

People with jobs and skills have gone south, to where the jobs are.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by SmartGXL

This point has been brought up already, but I am going to put my own spin on it.

I think that some parts of the city are growing, while others are shrinking fast and becoming like Detroit.

The "desirable" areas - Gold Coast, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Wicker Park, all the Loop areas, and to a great extent, Lincoln Square-type areas, are growing, while the Englewood-type neighborhoods are emptying out fast and are starting to resemble Detroit.

Many people want to live in the desirable areas, and a lot of people are moving there, speficially young single people from places like MI and Ohio.

But - this is the key. A LOT of the younger crowd just want to live the party lifestyle and nogt have kids or family. So even though people are moving into the nice hoods, they are not having kids either. When you match that up with the south side and west side hoods that are empyting out, it does not surprise me that Chicago has possibly lost 200,000 people.

Hell, I am even thinking about transferring to Dallas in the next 2 months or so.

And when and if they decide to settle down and have kids, they generally leave the city, and they may go to the Chicago suburbs, but not always, because they may be attracted to where they have family, because other metro areas have suburbs that are just as good as Chicagos suburbs.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by SmartGXL

A lot of the people that have left, (cabrini green types and other low income) did not go to the sunbelt, they went to places like Iowa and Minnesota.

People with jobs and skills have gone south, to where the jobs are.

But actually, and I believe failte mentioned this, really its the ones that pull themselves out of the poverty and move on up out of the ghetto are really the ones that are more likely to move out of those areas.

There really is this huge misconception. Thing is, and this is not because of current racist attitudes at all, but rather different cultural trajectories that are a result of past attitudes, that the ones that pull themselves out of poverty and do very well, are going to be attracted to the suburbs where they can own a home, and relate little to the north side party scene which is generally more relatable more often to post-collegiate young caucasian people. Sure you still have diversity no doubt in those neighborhoods, but it is more of based on similar cultural experiences of having gone to a university in the midwest.