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Some have family or friends they can connect with, but not all of them, and the longer the term they served the more likely it is that their spouse divorced them or moved away, their parents may be dead or unable to take them in, so yes they definitely contribute to the homeless. The same thing happens in California jails, all inmates are released from the main jail downtown but they might have lived in and been arrested in Folsom, ElkGrove, Rio Linda, or Citrus Heights. The ones without money or connections in the immediate area of the jail will probably remain downtown for a while because the county doesn't even give them money to get back to where they lived before they were arrested.
Good post, 2sleepy. And a subject that interests me because of a TV show I like very much. In the cases of ex offenders, we tend to release them and then just let them fend for themselves. And the longer the person was incarcerated, the harder it is for them to adjust to society, again. Thus, the reason many re-offend. The circle goes round and round.
I'd like to see more re-entry programs in this country that will guide these individuals, especially those who don't have family to rely on for shelter and support (emotionally). Like you stated, the longer time the person served, the greater the chances a spouse divorced them, parents may have died and even siblings or close friends abandoned them. Basically, they're released and then told, "There ya go, you're on your own." Harder to find a job with a record, maybe struggling with ptsd or some other form of emotional problem. Any number of things can hamper their transition into regular life.
I don't know how many homeless people in the state (or the country) are ex-offenders but I know there's a greater chance of preventing them from re-offending if they're given ways to normalize back into society. Maybe prisons offer counseling and re-entry education. I have no clue because we don't hear about it. I really do believe we need programs like that.
Spoiler
The TV show I watched (and actually own the DVDs because it's that good) had a program such as I mentioned that helped this man adapt to life outside the bars. What made it so much worse is that he was completely kept from other inmates for 20 years on death row. The only way he was able to communicate with anyone was through the vent in his cell. Just a voice, no face to face with anyone. His execution was stayed twice before he was finally released. Talk about doing a number on your psyche! To make things worse, he was convicted for a crime he didn't commit. Hence the reason for his release. They finally got around to testing the DNA. A corrupt (now) senator who was the prosecuting DA for the original case is determined to send him back to prison. He doesn't want his legacy soiled but he's already soiled because he's corrupt. The parolee is banished from his hometown, ends up moving to another state and moves into a home with four others, just like him. They receive counseling, education and are allowed to stay, as long as they make an effort. I guess you could call it a half-way house but it's a very strict establishment. Just a great show but kind of off topic which is why it's hidden in the spoiler box.
Good post, 2sleepy. And a subject that interests me because of a TV show I like very much. In the cases of ex offenders, we tend to release them and then just let them fend for themselves. And the longer the person was incarcerated, the harder it is for them to adjust to society, again. Thus, the reason many re-offend. The circle goes round and round.
I'd like to see more re-entry programs in this country that will guide these individuals, especially those who don't have family to rely on for shelter and support (emotionally). Like you stated, the longer time the person served, the greater the chances a spouse divorced them, parents may have died and even siblings or close friends abandoned them. Basically, they're released and then told, "There ya go, you're on your own." Harder to find a job with a record, maybe struggling with ptsd or some other form of emotional problem. Any number of things can hamper their transition into regular life.
I don't know how many homeless people in the state (or the country) are ex-offenders but I know there's a greater chance of preventing them from re-offending if they're given ways to normalize back into society. Maybe prisons offer counseling and re-entry education. I have no clue because we don't hear about it. I really do believe we need programs like that.
Spoiler
The TV show I watched (and actually own the DVDs because it's that good) had a program such as I mentioned that helped this man adapt to life outside the bars. What made it so much worse is that he was completely kept from other inmates for 20 years on death row. The only way he was able to communicate with anyone was through the vent in his cell. Just a voice, no face to face with anyone. His execution was stayed twice before he was finally released. Talk about doing a number on your psyche! To make things worse, he was convicted for a crime he didn't commit. Hence the reason for his release. They finally got around to testing the DNA. A corrupt (now) senator who was the prosecuting DA for the original case is determined to send him back to prison. He doesn't want his legacy soiled but he's already soiled because he's corrupt. The parolee is banished from his hometown, ends up moving to another state and moves into a home with four others, just like him. They receive counseling, education and are allowed to stay, as long as they make an effort. I guess you could call it a half-way house but it's a very strict establishment. Just a great show but kind of off topic which is why it's hidden in the spoiler box.
I didn't see the name of the TV show, it sounds great!
Some Countries, like Norway have a different approach, they provide rehabilitative services while allowing the inmate to connect to family members and even spend time (depending upon their behavior) in the community. Sentences are lower than in the US (the idea of lowering sentences tends to freak people in the US out) But with their rehab and educational programs and allowing more contact with family their recidivism rate (number of inmates reoffending within 2 years went from 60-70% in the 90's to 20% after two years and 25% after 5 years. https://www.firststepalliance.org/po...system-lessons Their idea is that the longer the person is isolated and kept behind bars the lower the chance that they will reintegrate into the community.
Unfortunately, most of our penal system, and our attitude toward the homeless, is based on the beliefs of John Calvin whose philosophy was spread by early settlers, most notably James Madison. The foundation of their faith was a belief in "predestination" which basically means: "The rich must have been good in this life and the poor must be getting what they deserve” is the whole point of Jesus’ rich man and Lazarus parable. And the concept of “fundamentally good vs bad people” is also out-of-nowhere for Calvinist doctrine as they hold to “total depravity”, that all people are sinful and under God’s judgment" and "Double predestination which is the idea that not only does God choose some to be saved, he also creates some people who will be damned"
Consequently, large numbers of Americans have a notion about how we can fix all our problems by being "tough on crime" and removing the homeless from view by building prison camps in the desert for them.
It seems that market-rate rental affordability is not that much more attainable if one moves to a supposedly cheaper area. I live in Charlotte, NC and apartments here are running $1300 on average for a one bedrm. Even if you move into a more rural county that is 45 min away the average 1 bedrm apt rent is close to $900. Minimum wage in NC is $7.25. Suggesting that people relocate is not really a viable solution.
I didn't see the name of the TV show, it sounds great!
Some Countries, like Norway have a different approach, they provide rehabilitative services while allowing the inmate to connect to family members and even spend time (depending upon their behavior) in the community. Sentences are lower than in the US (the idea of lowering sentences tends to freak people in the US out) But with their rehab and educational programs and allowing more contact with family their recidivism rate (number of inmates reoffending within 2 years went from 60-70% in the 90's to 20% after two years and 25% after 5 years. https://www.firststepalliance.org/po...system-lessons Their idea is that the longer the person is isolated and kept behind bars the lower the chance that they will reintegrate into the community.
Unfortunately, most of our penal system, and our attitude toward the homeless, is based on the beliefs of John Calvin whose philosophy was spread by early settlers, most notably James Madison. The foundation of their faith was a belief in "predestination" which basically means: "The rich must have been good in this life and the poor must be getting what they deserve” is the whole point of Jesus’ rich man and Lazarus parable. And the concept of “fundamentally good vs bad people” is also out-of-nowhere for Calvinist doctrine as they hold to “total depravity”, that all people are sinful and under God’s judgment" and "Double predestination which is the idea that not only does God choose some to be saved, he also creates some people who will be damned"
Consequently, large numbers of Americans have a notion about how we can fix all our problems by being "tough on crime" and removing the homeless from view by building prison camps in the desert for them.
If programs like that work in other countries, I think the U.S. could stand to try it as well instead of continuing to believe we're this superior country that has all the answers.
I only know that, having talked with some of the homeless and hearing their story, I am better able to understand that they are not all alike. It's not a one-size-fits-all situation. But that has little to do with the topic of the thread In that instance, I believe the majority of our homeless in this state are native to this state. Oh sure, I have no doubt some were bussed in or made their way here by other means. But the majority of them here were here to begin with.
Spoiler
I didn't post the name of the show but if you are interested in watching, it's called, Rectify. It ran four seasons on the Sundance Channel back in 2014. Then AMC picked it up and now you can watch it on the AMC+ Channel (if you subscribe to it). Every so often it shows up on the Roku Channel and airs currently a few episodes on Pluto. But, if you want to watch the entire four seasons (free), I can give you the name of a site. DM me for the link. If you like good television, you won't be disappointed.
That poster isnt wrong if he mentions up to 1/3 or 1/4 is from other areas which means 2/3 or 3/4 is from California.
There are stories of those who were Amish or undocumented babies who really have difficulty living their lives without documents worse than an undocumented alien in some ways. Some had to get on a Greyhound to a warmer state otherwise they will literally die in the cold.
But its more important to find the cause, ie being banished from or disowned by family members or friends, or simply won't help, by a spouse(separated, divorced and ordered to stay away), expelled from a job that once offered them housing or from a cult group or Amish group that had their everything, were Orphaned and aged out of foster care, were imprisoned and released but left to fend for themselves with a criminal record and losing everything they once owned more than a decade ago and not having any relative willing to take them in following release, eviction from where they stayed, etc? How many were caused by government or bad legislation, policies, or lack of protection from the law for civil matters? Bankruptcy may be due to a massive medical issue, accident, or mental health crisis? Even if housing is cheapest it won't solve the problem and we would still have plenty of homeless. Another major cause is the individualistic culture of the US? Drug users are often mandatory to be evicted from many types of housing as well.
I do notice that while having a home or shelter is a luxury yet sleeping outside is criminalized, a discrepency kind of like one is required to go in a toilet or otherwise its a crime just to accommadate for basic bodily functions, yet you don't have a right to access one. What a discrepency.
Another myth the study attempts to dispel is that most homeless people flock to California cities because of warm weather, liberal policies and generous services. In reality, 90% of the people surveyed said they were last housed in California, and 75% live in the same county as where they lost their housing.
With regard specifically to the questions about incarceration and homelessness:
A Pipeline from Jail to Homelessness
The study also emphasizes the relationship between incarceration and homelessness, said Alex Visotzky, senior California Policy Fellow for the National Alliance to End Homelessness.
More than three-quarters of people surveyed had been incarcerated at some point during their life. And in the six months before becoming homeless, 43% were in jail or prison, or were on probation or parole. The vast majority of those who had been incarcerated received no help signing up for housing, healthcare or benefits upon release.
“That drove home for me this point: Incarceration, homelessness and then subsequent criminalization are fueling a really vicious cycle for marginalized people, especially Black and Latino Californians, that’s both causing and prolonging homelessness,” Visotzky said. https://timesofsandiego.com/politics...in-california/
I thought this was interesting because for decades we’ve heard the rest of the country ships their mentally ill out West, or vagabonds choose CA for its weather and tolerance. This UCSF study of 3,000 homeless found 9 out of 10 lost their housing in-state, and most remain in the same county where they were housed.
But it doesn't change the fact that in fact there was a lot of people being shipped or bused, vagabonds, those who escape death by freezing, those who were shunned by Amish or other cult groups. Even 18% is not a small number. Its interesting to see the total numbers. If we look at the raw numbers Probably more transient homeless come to California than any other state for social services and likely drugs. When CA is already strained to deal with their own homeless population, i.e orphans, veterans, and former inmates. Which the state turned a blind eye for so long.
those who came decades ago searching for the "broken" California dream ie those who think they can be come tech engineers or actors. Those who thought they could afford because California jobs or gigs "pay" better than where they used to be only to face reality and having no home to return out of CA. Then there was COVID which many prisons, jails, shelters were shut down not just in CA but other parts of the country as well. Phoenix and Las Vegas actually did the opposite of what California did and shut down shelters and kicked them out of housing units, motels, public buildings ie convention centers, and encampments to avoid spreading COVID and left them to die in parking lots and social distancing boxes in harsh conditions. Thus many were rescued by humane groups and sent on buses toward California in order to not die. If the only other choice is death than they don't have a choice.
Now we have the constant caravan from Central and South America who decides to encamp in Baja California to enter California to seek asylum and eventually to protest US foreign policies in Central America. Even though Texas seems closer they choose to enter through California. Despite how they are likely going eventually protest in Washington DC.
I just read stories of ex amish kids who end up homeless and in CA, even though Amish communities are almost always in the northeast. Apparently, they were shunned and neglected and in the winter its almost like falling into the North Atlantic when the Titanic sank. Thus they get rescued or find ways to ride buses, trains, or hitchhike to warmer states and California is somehow much more attractive than Florida than the south.
I totally agree about how inmates are treated in CA and the US in general. Apparently, prison was a way to gain slave labor under the constitution. Freed slaves in the past were left to fend for themselves. The culture of fear and ever more transparent criminal record system and the lack of forgiveness in the US system really worsens the problem. But its overlooked even in this forum until I mentioned it.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 07-04-2023 at 04:05 PM..
But it doesn't change the fact that in fact there was a lot of people being shipped or bused, vagabonds, those who escape death by freezing, those who were shunned by Amish or other cult groups. Even 18% is not a small number. It’s interesting to see the total numbers. If we look at the raw numbers Probably more transient homeless come to California than any other state for social services and likely drugs. When CA is already strained to deal with their own homeless population, i.e orphans, veterans, and former inmates. Which the state turned a blind eye for so long.
those who came decades ago searching for the "broken" California dream ie those who think they can be come tech engineers or actors. Those who thought they could afford because California jobs or gigs "pay" better than where they used to be only to face reality and having no home to return out of CA. Then there was COVID which many prisons, jails, shelters were shut down not just in CA but other parts of the country as well. Phoenix and Las Vegas actually did the opposite of what California did and shut down shelters and kicked them out of housing units, motels, public buildings ie convention centers, and encampments to avoid spreading COVID and left them to die in parking lots and social distancing boxes in harsh conditions. Thus many were rescued by humane groups and sent on buses toward California in order to not die. If the only other choice is death than they don't have a choice.
Now we have the constant caravan from Central and South America who decides to encamp in Baja California to enter California to seek asylum and eventually to protest US foreign policies in Central America. Even though Texas seems closer they choose to enter through California. Despite how they are likely going eventually protest in Washington DC.
I just read stories of ex amish kids who end up homeless and in CA, even though Amish communities are almost always in the northeast. Apparently, they were shunned and neglected and in the winter its almost like falling into the North Atlantic when the Titanic sank. Thus they get rescued or find ways to ride buses, trains, or hitchhike to warmer states and California is somehow much more attractive than Florida than the south.
I totally agree about how inmates are treated in CA and the US in general. Apparently, prison was a way to gain slave labor under the constitution. Freed slaves in the past were left to fend for themselves. The culture of fear and ever more transparent criminal record system and the lack of forgiveness in the US system really worsens the problem. But its overlooked even in this forum until I mentioned it.
Please just stop with the “they’re being bussed in from the cold …” myth, ok? The “18%” has already been explained … there are nowhere near 18% homeless from out of state … Amish or anyone else.
Nor are there caravans of homeless choosing California over Texas.
Just stop.
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In that instance, I believe the majority of our homeless in this state are native to this state. Oh sure, I have no doubt some were bussed in or made their way here by other means. But the majority of them here were here to begin with. 
