Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Vaccines and milder strains mean less long-term problems in general. Most "long covid" resolves after a few months.
That's my instinctual belief, but I've seen nothing factual to support it. I've come across people with it now from pre-vaccine infections, and it is factually established that ability to smell can be permanently reduced (which isn't a new COVID trick - viruses have had that power for a long, long time).
Quote:
Not only that it's pretty clear hybrid immunity is likely superior for omicron over purely vaccines as you can see by looking at current growth curves of the new subvariant.
That's probably based on Delta or older variants. I already posted a study indicating that immunity (antibodies) in children from a past Omicron infection goes away in three months, and there's nothing to suggest in adults it lasts more than 6 months. That the booster's antibodies fall of in 3 months suggests 3 months protection per anyone's Omicron infection, if antibodies develop in the first place.
That's probably based on Delta or older variants. I already posted a study indicating that immunity (antibodies) in children from a past Omicron infection goes away in three months, and there's nothing to suggest in adults it lasts more than 6 months. That the booster's antibodies fall of in 3 months suggests 3 months protection per anyone's Omicron infection, if antibodies develop in the first place.
I believe that study is based on all variants as it came out in 2022.
The body produces antibodies or other immune responses to any viral infection. Some viruses mutate into strains unrecognizable by the immune system but typically subsequent infections are milder. Theres about 800 common cold strains circulating any year which is why most people get several colds a year. You can get one strain and never get it again but any of the others circulating can still infect you. T-cell mediated immune response however will limit the severity of the symptoms. It doesn't mean you have "no immunity" after 6 months however.
For example, the first time I got the flu was by far the worst, but the subsequent 3 times I got the flu for example were much milder. The strains of the virus circulating were novel enough so my immune system couldn't totally eliminate symptoms but not different enough to get me as sick as the first time.
Studies can be published six months or more after completion. I don't have access to more than a few paragraphs of that article. I suspect it means hybrid immunity to Omicron, which would have been based on vaccination plus Delta or an earlier infection. By "no immunity," I'm talking about to infection. Without much immunity to infection or widespread self-isolation, there's no slowing the spread and the significant damage it inevitably does to at least a small percentage of people.
By the way, re Omicron, every virus I know of that can cause major acute problems can cause significant problems that don't surface for a while, and they're generally untreatable. We already know Alpha and Delta can cause that, and it's too soon for data on Omicron causing it. The only sensible approach, with a virus that's rampant, is to warn about it. Do people realize that, in human history, viral infection probably has ruined more lives than any other cause (famine, bacterial infection, war, and so on) has?
Last edited by goodheathen; 03-25-2022 at 03:52 PM..
Well, they’ve got you to guide them, and I sleep better knowing that.
Yup. Just because of what I've already learned in this thread, I've committed to no longer being a sociopath. See, and we thought that forums were useless...
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen
...Attitudes have gotten so bad I wonder if attitudes would be better and this problem fixable sooner if instead of not-good-enough vaccines quickly, we'd gone a few years without any and people been forced to make lasting lifestyle changes for protection. ...
"Lasting lifestyle changes for protection"... am I being a brazen cynic, or do I detect a whiff of an agenda there?
Yup. Just because of what I've already learned in this thread, I've committed to no longer being a sociopath. See, and we thought that forums were useless...
"Lasting lifestyle changes for protection"... am I being a brazen cynic, or do I detect a whiff of an agenda there?
Lol? … anyway welcome back to the human dilemma … next thing you know, you’ll be enrolling in Introduction to Hot Bodhisattva Spiritual Calisthenics 101 at your local ashram.
Studies can be published six months or more after completion. I don't have access to more than a few paragraphs of that article. I suspect it means hybrid immunity to Omicron, which would have been based on vaccination plus Delta or an earlier infection. By "no immunity," I'm talking about to infection. Without much immunity to infection or widespread self-isolation, there's no slowing the spread and the significant damage it inevitably does to at least a small percentage of people.
By the way, re Omicron, every virus I know of that can cause major acute problems can cause significant problems that don't surface for a while, and they're generally untreatable. We already know Alpha and Delta can cause that, and it's too soon for data on Omicron causing it. The only sensible approach, with a virus that's rampant, is to warn about it. Do people realize that, in human history, viral infection probably has ruined more lives than any other cause (famine, bacterial infection, war, and so on) has?
Your assumption that things "may pop up" in the future is imo a bit absurd. Vaccines are out and as I proved earlier the mortality rate from Omicron puts it at about 1/4 the mortality of the original alpha strain and about the same as a bad flu year. Speculating that 10% of the country will be permanently debilitated or something absurd is a fallacious belief and not grounded in reality.
Years ago a study done on mechanically ventilated SARS patients showed that while many thought they would have lifelong complications most had completely recovered within 15 years. So "permanent" is a bit of a stretch. "Long covid" usually just means post viral fatigue syndrome which is common with other viral infections (I've personally had it with mononucleosis and influenza and recovered fully after a few months).
The second study I sent you was a meta analysis done during Omicron. It showed that natural immunity helped reduce Omicron infections significantly and that being vaccinated and having had covid was the best. But it does seem that natural immunity in this case seems stronger than the shots, but the shots reduce symptoms and after effects when you do get it.
You're free like everyone to wear masks I guess, and an N95 may help but it will only be a fraction as useful for you as a healthcare worker that had them fit tested and is forced to shave for work. But don't make everyone else wear them--as you can see "eliminating covid " is impossible anywhere and slightly reducing your chances only delays the inevitable with a disease that most likely is a permanent fixture of the human existance.
Your assumption that things "may pop up" in the future is imo a bit absurd. Vaccines are out and as I proved earlier the mortality rate from Omicron puts it at about 1/4 the mortality of the original alpha strain and about the same as a bad flu year. Speculating that 10% of the country will be permanently debilitated or something absurd is a fallacious belief and not grounded in reality.
Years ago a study done on mechanically ventilated SARS patients showed that while many thought they would have lifelong complications most had completely recovered within 15 years. So "permanent" is a bit of a stretch. "Long covid" usually just means post viral fatigue syndrome which is common with other viral infections (I've personally had it with mononucleosis and influenza and recovered fully after a few months).
The second study I sent you was a meta analysis done during Omicron. It showed that natural immunity helped reduce Omicron infections significantly and that being vaccinated and having had covid was the best. But it does seem that natural immunity in this case seems stronger than the shots, but the shots reduce symptoms and after effects when you do get it.
You're free like everyone to wear masks I guess, and an N95 may help but it will only be a fraction as useful for you as a healthcare worker that had them fit tested and is forced to shave for work. But don't make everyone else wear them--as you can see "eliminating covid " is impossible anywhere and slightly reducing your chances only delays the inevitable with a disease that most likely is a permanent fixture of the human existance.
Complete recovery within 15 years is not reassuring to anyone. I'd say 10 years of much limitation would ruin most lives, and I expect a non-trivial percentage of long-haulers to eventually commit suicide, if the medical community doesn't start offering some realistic hope for the not-distant future.
Which I don't expect, because my perception is that there's been basically no progress in treating post-viral conditions for decades. I first met someone with chronic fatigue, from I think mono, when I was a teen, and she was being disturbingly treated inappropriately.
I never said 10% would get debilitating long-Covid and 10% sounds too high to me, but if it's eventually 5%, that would harm society.
"Not grounded in reality" is how I'd describe thinking that post-Omicron natural immunity on top of vaccination would create superimmunity and prevent reinfection by it or other variants. Again, many signs are showing that 2022 'natural' immunity by itself is low-quality; it's different from the Delta experience. Omicron seems to be Covid evolved to cycle rapidly through the population and maximize its reproduction that way, that common-cold aspect grafted onto it but still more dangerous than the typical flu.
Complete recovery within 15 years is not reassuring to anyone. I'd say 10 years of much limitation would ruin most lives, and I expect a non-trivial percentage of long-haulers to eventually commit suicide, if the medical community doesn't start offering some realistic hope for the not-distant future.
Which I don't expect, because my perception is that there's been basically no progress in treating post-viral conditions for decades. I first met someone with chronic fatigue, from I think mono, when I was a teen, and she was being disturbingly treated inappropriately.
I never said 10% would get debilitating long-Covid and 10% sounds too high to me, but if it's eventually 5%, that would harm society.
Anecdotal but I actually work at a healthcare facility where almost everyone but me (and we test frequently so I wasn't the vector ) got covid. I know a ton of people personally (50+) that have had covid.
One lady had "long-covid" after going to the hospital. I think she's since recovered after a few months. I had a friend literally surf 15 foot waves with a cough and slight fever too and most people I knew seemed to have cases like that. I highly doubt 5% have any effects after 6 months, it's probably less than 1%.
The mechanically ventilated SARS study only took into account people that were in critical condition in the ER with lung failure having their lungs pumped for them by machines. The fact that these people almost entirely recovered eventually is good news. SARS had a mortality rate about 70x omicron too.
"Anecdotal." 50 people who probably were possibly a healthier-than-average sample to begin with, for example most or all healthy enough to be working prior to infection.
It will take time to know how often significant post-viral COVID problems last beyond 6 months, including organ damage, which few never-hospitalized patients are screened for. Even more time if it's repeating waves of the virus and some reinfection cases. Judging by the concern from epidemiologists and for example a recent statement by a German official that it could become the country's biggest chronic health condition, they seem to have more than 1% in mind. I was looking into Epstein-Barr virus, which I'm nearly sure that woman from my past said she had, and I haven't found a number or estimate on incidence after a mono infection, but it seems more than 1%. I don't think many health experts would shrug off people annually getting mono (which immunity might prevent) as low-risk for long-term problems.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) got covid. I know a ton of people personally (50+) that have had covid. 
