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Shutting down public education was a catastrophic mistake.
Shutting it down without a clear path to reopen it was. Shutting it down for "two weeks" originally made sense. But some of that is hindsight. The problem with going forward is the state is following it's guidelines to the letter and those guidelines don't mesh well with the pre-shut down school model.
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Originally Posted by Racer46
You think the schools will spend money on that?
Some have. Ventilation and filtration were the top recommendations and upgrades have already been put in place in my district.
I'm not giving blanket trust to any individual, let alone school, that claims to have things under control before long-term results are in. So far, COVID-19 has steadily found its way around almost everything palatable.
Once again, if you'd bother to read links I posted, you'd see how this is being addressed. There is no state limit btw.
I've read probably everything, and there should be a state limit still in place. Watch LAUSD and Orange County try to have classes with 30+ students. Too many shortcuts and self-congratulations happening. Some of us noticed that in the spring of last year. Government only tries hard when those methods fail (and with each failure the public trust and support for new measures decline). The UV light mentioned should be required and arranged by the state.
Communities in the United States with fully-open, fully-enrolled public schools, during periods of high viral spread, have not had any greater per-capita incidence of COVID-19 infections even prior to vaccines being available. Multiple studies--from early 2019 through today--have shown that children are not a significant disease vector.
I don't see any studies, much less multiple ones. The only studies of schoolchildren in the U.S. that I can find were on this thread of yours: https://www.city-data.com/forum/cali...aygrounds.html. Any links to new studies about viral spread within public schools in this country?
Here's an article about a private high school in Northern California that's been open for two months with apparently no COVID-19 outbreaks. However, it's private, meaning there's a lot more money to be spent on PPE and other safety measures.
I don't see any studies, much less multiple ones. The only studies of schoolchildren in the U.S. that I can find were on this thread of yours: https://www.city-data.com/forum/cali...aygrounds.html. Any links to new studies about viral spread within public schools in this country?
Here's an article about a private high school in Northern California that's been open for two months with apparently no COVID-19 outbreaks. However, it's private, meaning there's a lot more money to be spent on PPE and other safety measures.
That's an old thread. The information is somewhat out-of-date. Here are more recent studies:
Studies in countries where the prevalence of COVID-19 was high:
USA:
Leidman E, Duca LM, Omura JD, Proia K, Stephens JW, Sauber-Schatz EK. COVID-19 Trends Among Persons Aged 0–24 Years — United States, March 1–December 12, 2020. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2021;70(3):88-94. Published 2021 January 22. doi:10.15585/mmwr.mm7003e1
UK:
Ismail SA, Saliba V, Lopez Bernal J, Ramsay ME, Ladhani SN. SARS-CoV-2 infection and transmission in educational settings: a prospective, cross-sectional analysis of infection clusters and outbreaks in England. Lancet Infect Dis. 2020;S1473-3099(20)30882-3. Published online ahead of print 2020 December 8. doi:10.1016/S1473-3099(20)30882-3
Italy:
Gandini S, Rainisio M, Iannuzzo ML, Bellerba F, Cecconi F, Scorrano L. No evidence of association between schools and SARS-CoV-2 second wave in Italy. Preprint. MedRxiv. 2021; Posted online 2021 January 8. doi:10.1101/2020.12.16.20248134
Vaccination is key to reopening schools. Like any other workplace, it is the adults who are both transmission vectors of, and at risk from, COVID-19.
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When outbreaks occur in school settings, they tend to result in increased transmission among teachers and school staff rather than among students.
Fortunately, all teachers and school staff will have had an opportunity to be fully vaccinated by May.
Consistently, the burden of this pandemic has been shifted to those least affected by it; children. Especially in this state. We kept our power plants running (for the most part), our superstores stocked (after a few weeks of disruption), emergency services continued to operate, even when strained. Yet, we've made only the most half-hearted attempt to revive a collapsed education system. Global and national pandemic hotspots, from the UK to Indiana have either returned, or kept, their children to school throughout the pandemic with no statistically worse outcome than California. What is wrong with us that we can't do at least as well?
The CDC article does not say what you want us to believe, that children (I'll assume you're excluding high school students) are a trivial source of spread. So far that has not been determined, and if it has been the case, that could easily be attributed to public schools being closed for most of the past year. My opinion is that anything that might cause more than a tiny amount of spread should be handled very carefully. California has a few million school-age children, with a few hundred thousand of them in Los Angeles.
that could easily be attributed to public schools being closed for most of the past year. My opinion is that anything that might cause more than a tiny amount of spread should be handled very carefully. California has a few million school-age children, with a few hundred thousand of them in Los Angeles.
You've got to read all the articles. It's not black-and-white.
BLUF: Schools do not contribute to community spread when the prevalence of the virus is low in the community. They may contribute to the spread when the prevalence of the virus is high. In any case, the virus either does not spread through children, or it does not detectably spread through children.
All cited articles have shown schools are not the ticking time bomb they were assumed to be at the beginning of the pandemic. There is much stronger evidence that typical workplaces (industrial, farm, food service, commercial) are the primary vectors. These sectors are deemed essential and are open. Schools are deemed non-essential and are closed. However, testing results show that you can't teach 6-year-olds math via zoom any better than you can pack chickens via zoom.
As soon as the adult staff are vaccinated, schools need to resume classes (and teacher vaccination should have been prioritized far sooner than it was).
I understand that your circumstances may lead you to attribute little importance to public education, but it is an essential service. It is not childcare/babysitting (that sector is wide open). Unlike powerplants, schools can be shut down for a couple of weeks without severely damaging every other sector. They cannot, however, but shut down for multiple years without destroying the fabric of society.
Perhaps as much as 20-30% are doing just fine with private, SAHP, PODs, and what-have-you. Most intelligent adults can deliver a decent fraction of the curriculum to 3-5 children without formal training. However, the majority of families do not have the ability to fill the gap left by the collapse of the public school system. I've read the resolutions (and implemented the so-called solutions) coming out of Sacramento, and they are all-but-worthless. The truth of the matter is that Distance Learning for (at least) elementary schoolers is ineffective, so we have a 1+ year (and growing) educational black hole in a system that was already functioning poorly.
Children are resilient. Their minds likely have the capacity to "catch up" or even-out a year, maybe even more, of educational failure. The problem is that the public school system is not designed to do this "catching-up." Many children are going to be left behind, more with every day the system is nonfunctional. We need to stop throwing away their future in the name of COVID-timidity that has no scientific basis, and is particularly galling and hypocritical when we prioritize reopening nonessential retail, commercial, entertainment, and other less-important industries.
Children are resilient. Their minds likely have the capacity to "catch up" or even-out a year, maybe even more, of educational failure. The problem is that the public school system is not designed to do this "catching-up." Many children are going to be left behind, more with every day the system is nonfunctional. We need to stop throwing away their future in the name of COVID-timidity that has no scientific basis, and is particularly galling and hypocritical when we prioritize reopening nonessential retail, commercial, entertainment, and other less-important industries.
You've got to read all the articles. It's not black-and-white.
BLUF: Schools do not contribute to community spread when the prevalence of the virus is low in the community. They may contribute to the spread when the prevalence of the virus is high. In any case, the virus either does not spread through children, or it does not detectably spread through children.
All cited articles have shown schools are not the ticking time bomb they were assumed to be at the beginning of the pandemic. There is much stronger evidence that typical workplaces (industrial, farm, food service, commercial) are the primary vectors. These sectors are deemed essential and are open. Schools are deemed non-essential and are closed. However, testing results show that you can't teach 6-year-olds math via zoom any better than you can pack chickens via zoom.
As soon as the adult staff are vaccinated, schools need to resume classes (and teacher vaccination should have been prioritized far sooner than it was).
I understand that your circumstances may lead you to attribute little importance to public education, but it is an essential service. It is not childcare/babysitting (that sector is wide open). Unlike powerplants, schools can be shut down for a couple of weeks without severely damaging every other sector. They cannot, however, but shut down for multiple years without destroying the fabric of society.
Perhaps as much as 20-30% are doing just fine with private, SAHP, PODs, and what-have-you. Most intelligent adults can deliver a decent fraction of the curriculum to 3-5 children without formal training. However, the majority of families do not have the ability to fill the gap left by the collapse of the public school system. I've read the resolutions (and implemented the so-called solutions) coming out of Sacramento, and they are all-but-worthless. The truth of the matter is that Distance Learning for (at least) elementary schoolers is ineffective, so we have a 1+ year (and growing) educational black hole in a system that was already functioning poorly.
Children are resilient. Their minds likely have the capacity to "catch up" or even-out a year, maybe even more, of educational failure. The problem is that the public school system is not designed to do this "catching-up." Many children are going to be left behind, more with every day the system is nonfunctional. We need to stop throwing away their future in the name of COVID-timidity that has no scientific basis, and is particularly galling and hypocritical when we prioritize reopening nonessential retail, commercial, entertainment, and other less-important industries.
Two wrongs make right is a terrible argument.
"Does not detectably spread through children" - true, because they're not tested enough! That's more see no evil, hear no evil. Yes, schools "may contribute to the spread when the prevalence of the virus is high" and it is still high compared to, say, last June in most parts of California. In a large Southern California school system, it's easy to picture a breeding ground for COVID-19, and let's not forgot that vaccinated people (meaning staff) can still spread the virus, especially the mutant variants. Either return with extreme care, or wait at least until primary caretakers are vaccinated and community numbers lower (and do vouchers for PODs or private schools).
"Does not detectably spread through children" - true, because they're not tested enough! That's more see no evil, hear no evil. Yes, schools "may contribute to the spread when the prevalence of the virus is high" and it is still high compared to, say, last June in most parts of California. In a large Southern California school system, it's easy to picture a breeding ground for COVID-19, and let's not forgot that vaccinated people (meaning staff) can still spread the virus, especially the mutant variants. Either return with extreme care, or wait at least until primary caretakers are vaccinated and community numbers lower (and do vouchers for PODs or private schools).
You have found a study which indicates vaccinated people spread the virus? Or is that just conjecture based on a lack of evidence either way?
What is the difference between exposure through private schools and exposure through public schools? I don't understand why you are okay with child care and private schools being open but demand public schools remain closed.
If we really want to ensure community spread stays on a downward trajectory, we should sacrifice a less-important industry that IS a primary means of transmission. We could easily achieve this goal by closing or keep closed: retail, sporting events, theme parks, barber shops, nail/hair salons. We've consistently raced to restore essential services like pedicures, while putting the brakes on unimportant dross like public education. Certainly speaks to our priorities.
While I don't like the idea of waiting until vaccinations are available for all adults, that time is coming soon, so I'll accept it as a suboptimal solution.
Schools should reopen at 100% capacity once vaccines are available to everyone for which an EUA is approved (currently everyone over 18). A portion of the billions in COVID relief earmarked for schools should go to providing online-only options for those who are afraid to send unvaccinated children back to school. That is not an unreasonable fear for parents of older children who have comorbidities.
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Can't rep you again.
