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You really think vaccine development are given unlimited resources to finish "for no other reasons than politics"?
I said if it might be, would you want to be first in line to receive it?
Do you think the development of a vaccine for covid is totally devoid of political motivation?
The only real frame of reference anyone alive in the U.S. today has for this sort of thing is polio. The outbreaks of it in the late 40s and early 50s didn't cause the nation to nosedive into the divisive state we're in over covid. And it took about a decade to develop and fine tune that vaccine, and then several years of administering it to get case numbers down to something acceptable. My point is (was), in the interim, we sort of need a better plan than just waiting for a vaccine. Even if it's developed tomorrow.
A month ago or so, we were a hot spot along with Arizona and Florida. California has some of the tightest restrictions in the country, yet we were up there with two states that were much more open. Those restrictions didn’t seem to help very much.
There’s a number of businesses that have said they’re going to ignore the state if they tell them they have to close for the third time. I’ll be supporting those businesses.
Like you said and as I've said for awhile too, the more this drags on, the more likely the legal issue *won't* continue to take a backseat to public health. I think the church case was rushed to the Supreme Court. Even so, they essentially punted on the core issue in their hasty decision. Ignoring the deeper ramifications of state-imposed closures, etc. isn't indefinitely sustainable.
Depending on the study you read, 40%-80% of people that test positive are asymptomatic. People act like this has a 95% mortality rate and it’s simply not so.
A month ago or so, we were a hot spot along with Arizona and Florida. California has some of the tightest restrictions in the country, yet we were up there with two states that were much more open. Those restrictions didn’t seem to help very much.
There’s a number of businesses that have said they’re going to ignore the state if they tell them they have to close for the third time. I’ll be supporting those businesses.
I’m glad you brought up the “mortality rate”, Mike. Good time to revisit what I pointed out months ago when “mortality rate” was so often raised as the reason this pandemic shouldn’t be considered a scourge far worse than the annual flu we all manage to navigate around for so many years.
Here’s the thing I was pointing out back then: the “mortality rate” is only meaningful in relation to the ease of infection, and subsequent infection rate.
Many argued that: “Covid has a lower mortality rate and more people die of the annual flu and we don’t shut down for that.”
Well sir, now, in the span of a typical flu season (about 8 months), Covid has killed more than 3x the number the annual flu kills ... even though Covid has a lower mortality rate.
And that is because: it is far more infectious.
And, not only is Covid far more infectious, it is infectious via unknowing, asymptomatic carriers.
Unchecked, this is far worse than the flu ... and will destroy the economy you so desperately want to see revived.
The “tight restrictions” are not nearly enough ... just bs placation.
If we had locked down for just one month back in February, or March, we wouldn’t be having this conversation now ... nor would we have had it last month, or the month before that, or the one before that, or the one before.
You would be out tonight at your neighborhood ice cream shoppe having a Sunday with friends ... and going to work off the calories at your gym tomorrow.
To say nothing of hundreds of thousands of families continuing to embrace loved ones now gone instead.
So go right ahead and support the continuation of the debacle brotherman.
I’m glad you brought up the “mortality rate”, Mike. Good time to revisit what I pointed out months ago when “mortality rate” was so often raised as the reason this pandemic shouldn’t be considered a scourge far worse than the annual flu we all manage to navigate around for so many years.
Here’s the thing I was pointing out back then: the “mortality rate” is only meaningful in relation to the ease of infection, and subsequent infection rate.
Many argued that: “Covid has a lower mortality rate and more people die of the annual flu and we don’t shut down for that.”
Well sir, now, in the span of a typical flu season (about 8 months), Covid has killed more than 3x the number the annual flu kills ... even though Covid has a lower mortality rate.
And that is because: it is far more infectious.
And, not only is Covid far more infectious, it is infectious via unknowing, asymptomatic carriers.
Unchecked, this is far worse than the flu ... and will destroy the economy you so desperately want to see revived.
The “tight restrictions” are not nearly enough ... just bs placation.
If we had locked down for just one month back in February, or March, we wouldn’t be having this conversation now ... nor would we have had it last month, or the month before that, or the one before that, or the one before.
You would be out tonight at your neighborhood ice cream shoppe having a Sunday with friends ... and going to work off the calories at your gym tomorrow.
To say nothing of hundreds of thousands of families continuing to embrace loved ones now gone instead.
So go right ahead and support the continuation of the debacle brotherman.
I never said this was like the flu. It’s not. However, it’s not the Black Death that some make it out to be. As I said before, a large number of people that test positive are asymptomatic. The most serious cases are older people with underlying conditions. There are ways to protect those people and keep infections low without destroying businesses, the economy and people’s lives when they lose everything.
They couldn’t do a complete lockdown because people have to buy food. As I said before, it doesn’t make sense to say you can’t have a small number of people in certain retail stores or restaurants while you let hundreds into a grocery store or a Costco. I don’t know if you’ve been in a Costco lately but there is no social distancing and there are many that pull down their masks or wear the masks incorrectly.
You can’t keep opening and closing businesses like a yo-yo. You can’t tell businesses to sink thousands of dollars into the store/restaurant so they can reopen only to close them a few weeks later.
The plan so far isn’t working. And yet again, if these restrictions are so effective, why were we a hot spot along with Arizona and Florida?
I never said this was like the flu. It’s not. However, it’s not the Black Death that some make it out to be. As I said before, a large number of people that test positive are asymptomatic. The most serious cases are older people with underlying conditions. There are ways to protect those people and keep infections low without destroying businesses, the economy and people’s lives when they lose everything.
They couldn’t do a complete lockdown because people have to buy food. As I said before, it doesn’t make sense to say you can’t have a small number of people in certain retail stores or restaurants while you let hundreds into a grocery store or a Costco. I don’t know if you’ve been in a Costco lately but there is no social distancing and there are many that pull down their masks or wear the masks incorrectly.
You can’t keep opening and closing businesses like a yo-yo. You can’t tell businesses to sink thousands of dollars into the store/restaurant so they can reopen only to close them a few weeks later.
The plan so far isn’t working. And yet again, if these restrictions are so effective, why were we a hot spot along with Arizona and Florida?
I agree with you that the “plan” isn’t working and the restrictions are ineffective. I just said: the “plan“, as we are living in it, is entirely insufficient bs.
But I don’t get why this has to be an equivalent to the Black Death to be taken seriously. It’s serious as all hell.
Nor do I get why asymptomatic carriers are anything less than Typhoid Mary ... you do know the true story of Typhoid Mary, right?
Asymptomatic carriers are exactly why this requires lockdown.
And yes, lockdowns are survivable ... far more so than this bleeding from a thousand cuts charade we are fighting amongst ourselves in now.
Stock up. Lock down for a month. End of problem. Could have been over 6 months ago.
I agree with you that the “plan” isn’t working and the restrictions are ineffective. I just said: the “plan“, as we are living in it, is entirely insufficient bs.
But I don’t get why this has to be an equivalent to the Black Death to be taken seriously. It’s serious as all hell.
Nor do I get why asymptomatic carriers are anything less than Typhoid Mary ... you do know the true story of Typhoid Mary, right?
Asymptomatic carriers are exactly why this requires lockdown.
And yes, lockdowns are survivable ... far more so than this bleeding from a thousand cuts charade we are fighting amongst ourselves in now.
Stock up. Lock down for a month. End of problem. Could have been over 6 months ago.
Maybe it would have been over, but not everyone (one poster in particular) wants to make a few sacrifices. It seems like we’re past the point of a total lockdown. People panic. We saw what happened with paper products and water when people heard rumors about a lockdown. They go crazy. I can’t imagine what it would look like if the government announced that there will be a total lockdown starting in X amount of days or weeks. People would probably kill each other over a roll of TP.
With all the lost tax revenue, the politicians don’t have the stomach a total lockdown, so we’re stuck with these half measures that are probably hurting more than they help.
I’ll be curious to see if the courts uphold the Pennsylvania ruling if it’s even appealed and if California will go the same way.
I agree with you that the “plan” isn’t working and the restrictions are ineffective. I just said: the “plan“, as we are living in it, is entirely insufficient bs.
But I don’t get why this has to be an equivalent to the Black Death to be taken seriously. It’s serious as all hell.
Nor do I get why asymptomatic carriers are anything less than Typhoid Mary ... you do know the true story of Typhoid Mary, right?
Asymptomatic carriers are exactly why this requires lockdown.
And yes, lockdowns are survivable ... far more so than this bleeding from a thousand cuts charade we are fighting amongst ourselves in now.
Stock up. Lock down for a month. End of problem. Could have been over 6 months ago.
This is what a 3 month long lockdown would look like in the U.S. due to our current political climate:
Most Americans Won’t Be Able to Get a Coronavirus Vaccine Until Well Into 2021
The first doses will likely be reserved for health workers and others at high risk: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...well-into-2021
Yes I do. It takes as long as it takes for efficacy data to appear. Likely in 2 months from now we will have it. Stats=math=science. The world is round btw.
Maybe it would have been over, but not everyone (one poster in particular) wants to make a few sacrifices. It seems like we’re past the point of a total lockdown. People panic. We saw what happened with paper products and water when people heard rumors about a lockdown. They go crazy. I can’t imagine what it would look like if the government announced that there will be a total lockdown starting in X amount of days or weeks. People would probably kill each other over a roll of TP.
With all the lost tax revenue, the politicians don’t have the stomach a total lockdown, so we’re stuck with these half measures that are probably hurting more than they help.
I’ll be curious to see if the courts uphold the Pennsylvania ruling if it’s even appealed and if California will go the same way.
Heh. I agree, generally. But you asked: “there must be a better way.” I just revealed it. The breakdown is: human nature combined with American ideology and belief in entitlement.
But I will also point out that some other countries pulled it off ... and some such as China only shut down certain locales where the virus popped up. With quality leadership and a cooperative population these things can be effected without total lockdown. But large percentages of Americans are like a bunch of spoiled brat kids ... lazy intellectually ... convinced of extraordinary entitlement. And as for quality leadership? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha ....
I said if it might be, would you want to be first in line to receive it?
Too late, 10s of thousands already have and a few million at least will get it before its offered to my cohort. By then, yes me and my family will get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joosoon
Do you think the development of a vaccine for covid is totally devoid of political motivation?
Subjective term. Absent any evidence to the contrary, yes I do. Politicians talking about the virus doesn't affect development. Politicians throwing money at the companies development isn't devoid of motivation, the motive is to end the **** pandemic so we can get back to normal lives even with the dysfunctional people all around us dragging us down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joosoon
The only real frame of reference anyone alive in the U.S. today has for this sort of thing is polio....My point is (was), in the interim, we sort of need a better plan than just waiting for a vaccine. Even if it's developed tomorrow.
Didn't polio end because of a vaccine? Of all the examples, this one didn't prove your point.
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