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I've been trying to battle Medieval mentality "it's just a flu" and "I don't need no stinkin mask" in this thread for a while...
Please do not say nonsense that only N95 mask will protect you from this virus.
I do have a box of N95 respirators - and some of the products are certainly better than others but:
1) almost no product provides 100% protection, other than full head cover N100 respirator
2) respirators provide better protection than masks, and there're different respirators, N95, N99, N100, but many of the respirators, especially disposable ones, will allow some air flow from the outside in which may bring a virus. 95 is 95% filtering in case someone does not now, by the way, but there'll also be gaps around the edge of it.
3) non-N95 mask is much better than nothing!!! It will provide various degrees of protection, depending on how it's made - just less than N95 respirator or N95 mask
A degree of protection is better than nothing!
There's hardly a case of 100% protection from the virus other than full body suit, just different degrees of protection afforded, and yes, in the old times, before N95 products existed, medical workers were wearing....gasp....GAUZE MASKS, made of multiple layers of gauze.
Which rock have some of you people been living under?
Surgeons and nurses had been wearing gauze masks during surgeries in the old times, and yes, it worked!
And nurses and doctors were wearing them during old epidemics and near infectious people!
Why is this news???
They afford decent level of protection!
Very thick gauze masks made of a few layers of gauze stitched through (I recall personally making them them as a kid, for use by medical personnel) and they can be boiled with a bit of cholorox, to sterilize.
Even bandana tied around the face provides some protection.
It seems that Americans in their uneducated brainwashed arrogance are way behind people even in impoverished 3rd world villages now! That's why epidemic is so bad here.
Last edited by worldcitizen10; 03-29-2020 at 08:04 AM..
So, yesterday I was out and about on errands (I am up in rural Washington now). I saw one guy walking on a completely deserted trail, miles from any town / neighborhood / social activity - wearing a mask.
May be the guy saw you approaching and donned a mask? Trails aren't wide enough to provide safe separation distance and may be didn't want to step off the trail/no space? Also, if a person overtakes someone on the trail, they a have to first walk in the air potentially filled with droplets from other person sneeze for quite a while, in windless weather. Also, some people actually wear dust masks during outdoor activities, if place is dusty or to protect from pollen during season, because of lung issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
Shortly after, I saw another guy driving in his own ‘effing car on another deserted country road - wearing a mask.
This is not healthy. This is nuts.
Had it occurred to you that the person might have a high-risk individual in their household and only one car per household? May be they were driving to pick them up, to take them to a medical appointment? Some people tend to be asymptomatic carriers and some people are in high-risk groups, having other medical conditions. Just because a person does not look old, it doesn't mean they're not immunocompromised or do not have lung conditions.
Don't be quick to judge.
Last edited by worldcitizen10; 03-29-2020 at 08:25 AM..
I've been trying to battle Medieval mentality "it's just a flu" and "I don't need no stinkin mask" in this thread for a while...
Please do not say nonsense that only N95 mask will protect you from this virus.
Even bandana tied around the face provides some protection.
It seems that Americans in their uneducated brainwashed arrogance are way behind people even in impoverished 3rd world villages now! That's why epidemic is so bad here.
I agree with this. Wearing masks in public is normal in many Asian countries. No, most masks can't filter out every virus but you can't tell me they don't offer at least some protection especially in crowded areas.
I think the real issue is that N95 masks or even basic ones simply aren't available, so that's why the public is told masks don't help. Since Americans are "all or nothing" we simply say ok, no masks. And since "stay at home" orders allow stores like Costco and Walmart and Home Depot to remain open, we cram those stores and feel perfectly comfortable without wearing any protection.
And yet if this is true why are hospitals everywhere telling people to donate their masks? Of course medical workers need them the most so they should get whatever supply is available. But if you think about it this desperate need for masks contradicts the "masks don't help" message we have all been hearing.
Where can you get masks now and how do you make homemade masks? I got some el cheapo's at dollar tree 3 months ago when this stuff was hitting China almost as a joke...using them now if I go in a store, etc since I help out my elderly mother and like the sense of control a mask gives you...whether they work or not. Every time I see China or South Korea (which had early testing, masks, and early social distancing/isolation) on the news, EVERYBODY has a mask on as well. Seems like they can only help if everybody had them in public.
I hand-made some masks as a kid, for use by medical personnel, before modern materials for N95/99/100 masks existed. If you can't purchase N95 product on Amazon that can be delivered fast (not sure about current situation), the best one can do is layer multiple layers of fabrics in a rectangle shape, light-stitch it through in widely-spaced rows, kind of like a blanket, and attach 4 ties at each corner, which can be tied behind the head.
In the old times medical masks were made from gauze, the kind that's used for bandaging wounds, and about one-third-inch thick (due to puffiness effect form layered gauze). If you have a box of large gauze or other fabric-like wound care pads, you can layer them over each other. Otherwise, can use light material that would allow breathing when layered in a few layers, the more layers the better. One may add a layer of sturdy cotton on the outside of such mask, but in the past, medical masks just used gauze and did not add sturdier outside layer, for whatever reason. Such mask can be sterilized by boiling, and one can add a some chlorox to that boiling water.
This is the simple way. If one got some basic sewing skills, can make better fitting shaped "respirator" mask, after printing the pattern from online (kind of like black fabric masks sold on Amazon), they put sturdier outside thick cotton layer that holds the shape of the mask keeping the front of it away from the mouth, and can place multiple gauze or light material layers on the inside. This is just more involved.
If using brand-new fabrics which are not medical grade (wound care plain gauze would be), due to all the dyes and pesticides added for shipping in modern fabrics (which can cause lung issues that rival coronavirus effects), need to first clean that fabric by soaking it (best outside the house to keep the fumes out), adding clorox is very good for this, ammonia (alternatively, one shouldn't mix it with anything) too, but vinegar or baking soda (not at the same time, as they react!) also work, depending on how heavy the chemicals are. If one has none of that stuff, heavy soap concentration soak. Basically, the fabric used shouldn't have any noticeable smell of any kind.
They sell washable bamboo paper towel rolls in some stores, I think they also can be used (after washing them), if no fabric is available, as these are very strong and do not tear.
Last edited by worldcitizen10; 03-29-2020 at 08:59 AM..
A total of 20 people died of the virus in California on Friday alone (3/27), with deaths reported by Contra Costa, Kern, Los Angeles, Marin, Orange, Sacramento, San Diego, San Francisco, San Joaquin, San Mateo, Santa Clara and Ventura counties.
The person who died in Kern County, the county’s first in the coronavirus pandemic, was identified by friends as Susie Garcia, 48, of Delano, according to local media outlets. They believe she contracted the virus during a recent visit to San Jose, according to the media reports.
On Saturday, San Francisco reported an additional death, bringing its total to four deaths and 308 cases. So did Orange County, which reached four deaths and 403 cases.
There are now nearly 5,000 cases of coronavirus infection in the state, and officials believe that number will skyrocket with aggressive new testing.
I agree with this. Wearing masks in public is normal in many Asian countries. No, most masks can't filter out every virus but you can't tell me they don't offer at least some protection especially in crowded areas.
I think the real issue is that N95 masks or even basic ones simply aren't available, so that's why the public is told masks don't help. Since Americans are "all or nothing" we simply say ok, no masks. And since "stay at home" orders allow stores like Costco and Walmart and Home Depot to remain open, we cram those stores and feel perfectly comfortable without wearing any protection.
And yet if this is true why are hospitals everywhere telling people to donate their masks? Of course medical workers need them the most so they should get whatever supply is available. But if you think about it this desperate need for masks contradicts the "masks don't help" message we have all been hearing.
Wearing masks in asian countries is common when they’re sick. Not when they’re healthy. Many sources are saying that masks can’t help you if you’re healthy but they help prevent the spread if you’re sick.
You say it to Justbystander...I think most don't need to look this up.
These words came from the guy crippled by polio disease....speaking of infection protection, which was unnecessarily judged in your post. Somehow I believe FDR would not judge anyone from going extra mile to protect self and vulnerable household members from epidemic.
And you didn't quote his phrase in full, he'd said:
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief tha we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
So, this quote doesn't really apply at all to those people you had unnecessarily judged for wearing masks even though they were alone (in another post above, I explained multiple situations which could perfectly justify their behavior). I don't see how them wearing masks alone somehow "paralyzed efforts to convert retreat into advance"....I'd say it's the other way.
Specifically regarding the guy on the trail - like they say, everyone should hike their own hike.
As to rural and remote locations, I'm sure everyone knows that there's often one ventilator per hospital and little hospital resources in general. These hospitals will be completely overwhelmed and possibly destroyed if epidemic makes it to these counties.
Last edited by worldcitizen10; 03-29-2020 at 09:27 AM..
May be the guy saw you approaching and donned a mask? Trails aren't wide enough to provide safe separation distance and may be didn't want to step off the trail/no space? Also, if a person overtakes someone on the trail, they a have to first walk in the air potentially filled with droplets from other person sneeze for quite a while, in windless weather. Also, some people actually wear dust masks during outdoor activities, if place is dusty or to protect from pollen during season, because of lung issues.
Had it occurred to you that the person might have a high-risk individual in their household and only one car per household? May be they were driving to pick them up, to take them to a medical appointment? Some people tend to be asymptomatic carriers and some people are in high-risk groups, having other medical conditions. Just because a person does not look old, it doesn't mean they're not immunocompromised or do not have lung conditions.
Don't be quick to judge.
Not quick to judge. Very focused. I was driving a pretty empty minor highway, the walker was out for exercise (carrying no bags or packages, wearing a Gortex-hiking-type rain jacket) on a dedicated walking trail, off the roadway separated by a fence. Trail is quite well-groomed and wide. Not another soul in sight. This is rural farmland miles outside a fairly small town.
That said, I’d feel similarly if the trail was lightly shared even inside a rural town.
Lightly rainy day with moderate breezes in temperatures in the mid-40s (north Puget Sound Washington).
As for the driver (in the same rural region): I said: empty car other than driver.
Obsessive fear behavior is not sensible, healthy behavior.
Fear is the first enemy that creates elevated danger. Disciplined thinking is the antidote. Title of a book by a Navy Seal says it all: ‘Discipline Equals Freedom.’ The author is kind of a jerk and over the top. But that sentiment is spot on.
The news is FULL of things that beg fearful thinking. It’s also FULL of top shelf advice ... including distancing and basic sanitary exercises in life under these conditions. Set aside the fear. Follow the advice reasonably.
Not quick to judge. Very focused. I was driving a pretty empty minor highway, the walker was out for exercise (carrying no bags or packages, wearing a Gortex-hiking-type rain jacket) on a dedicated walking trail, off the roadway separated by a fence. Trail is quite well-groomed and wide. Not another soul in sight. This is rural farmland miles outside a fairly small town.
That said, I’d feel similarly if the trail was lightly shared even inside a rural town.
Lightly rainy day with moderate breezes in temperatures in the mid-40s (north Puget Sound Washington).
As for the driver (in the same rural region): I said: empty car other than driver.
Obsessive fear behavior is not sensible, healthy behavior.
Fear is the first enemy that creates elevated danger. Disciplined thinking is the antidote. Title of a book by a Navy Seal says it all: ‘Discipline Equals Freedom.’ The author is kind of a jerk and over the top. But that sentiment is spot on.
The news is FULL of things that beg fearful thinking. It’s also FULL of top shelf advice ... including distancing and basic sanitary exercises in life under these conditions. Set aside the fear. Follow the advice reasonably.
Navy Seals are in for dying in combat, not for simply surviving, so please don't expand this book advice to vulnerable populations. You do no know the medical history of people you had seen, their household situation and medical history of their household members.
Everyone should do what they believe necessary for their protection and protection of others near them, and not be judged.
As to empty car... clearly you had not even read my response post. Please do. Car might not be empty the next moment, if they have one car for household (yes, a lot of people can't afford a car per person), and need to drive vulnerable household member to cancer treatment next. People with cancer have to go in for treatments and tests every single day.
I recently saw a guy driving in respirator and in disposable gloves alone in a car, driving into isolated campground/ retreat. He was to be in and out, picking something up or delivering stuff, driving from nearby town, and had simply put up protective stuff in advance.
As to hiker....again, everyone should hike own hike. It applies to carrying guns as well.
You said "Not another soul in sight."....well, you saw him.
And again you didn't bother reading my post. Have you read about things like pollen? Do you know what it's like to suffocate because of pine pollen? Pray you won't.
Last edited by worldcitizen10; 03-29-2020 at 09:45 AM..
The following is a copy and paste from the Sunday morning e-edition of the Sacramento Bee.
Coronavirus: Latest in California
This is a special update on the global coronavirus outbreak, where we provide a roundup of news, tips and fact-checking to help you navigate the flood of information about the disease and its impacts. For more news throughout the day, bookmark this page.
Latest news:
In California, the number of coronavirus patients in intensive care units doubled overnight and manufacturers are stepping up to build equipment like ventilators to fill hospital shortages, Gov. Gavin Newsom said Saturday.
President Donald Trump said Saturday that he will not impose a quarantine on New York, New Jersey and Connecticut but would instead issue a “strong” travel advisory.
New York City remains the epicenter for cases in the U.S., but Chicago, Detroit and New Orleans have also emerged as hot spots.
While thousands of international and domestic flights have been canceled this month because of the coronavirus outbreak, airports, airlines and passengers are taking extra measures to remain safe.
The number of confirmed cases worldwide has surpassed 650,000, with a death toll topping 30,700, according to Johns Hopkins University. Italy has reported more than 10,000 dead, and Spain more than 5,900.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has approved a 15-minute coronavirus test, and its maker says it expects to deliver 50,000 a day beginning next week.
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