Universal Health Care ! CA (Nice: fit in, universities, tax)

[payutenyodagimas]

our family don't pay for health insurance right now, only co-pay when we get our annual check ups. we get our insurance thru our jobs. that's our benefits. we are middle age and probably the most expensive the insurance paid for us is when my wife had our daughter and that's only once.


so anything that make us pay to have health insurance is no good. that's additional tax for us.


don't be fooled when they say you can keep your doctor, blah blah blah. we heard that one before already

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by StanleysOwl

While it increased some costs for some payers, it overal reduced the rising trajectory of healthcare costs very significantly.

Those are some interesting, uh, "alternative" facts. Well make make them unproven theories.

The White House Council of Economic Advisors under the Obama Administration put out a press release claiming health care costs would be 0.5 percent higher per year if not for the ACA.

In response, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid services (cms.gov) put out a release stating the the ACA has had a "minimal" effect on the slowdown of the increase in health care costs. The slowing in the rate of increase in health care costs started before the implementation of the Obamacare. The reasons CMS economists & statisticians, who have tracked healthcare expenditures in detail since 1960, cited for the slowdown in the rate of increase in healthcare costs
were:

• The Great Recession and subsequent sluggish recovery
• Drops in some prescription drug costs brought about by the expiration of patents on several costly medications including Crestor, Lipitor, Plavix and Singulair, which are now available in low-cost generic versions, and
• A one-time reduction in Medicare payment levels to skilled nursing facilities.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

If CA single payer passed (and I predict about a 50/50 chance it will go through), I predict it would end California.

I rate the chance at less than 10%. The purpose of CA Single Payer is to influence voter behaviour in the next statewide election, not to actually become law. Most everyone agrees the health care system is screwed up, and it is a great way to try to influence who gets elected. You can already see the ads targeting evil non-progressives who want Grandma to die because she doesn't have meds, and is at home with the electricity disconnected, eating dry cat food...

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Would you want to be operated on by a doctor who got through medical school on "good feelings" or a total academic killer who crushed the MCAT, got straight A's in Harvard, with an eye on making $300,000 a year as a surgeon?

I chose the Harvard guy to do my cataract surgery. University of Chicago Lab School/Oxford Undergrad/Harvard Medical School, on the faculty at Harvard Medical & Stanford Medical ... heck, he even did Gordon Moore's eyes.. he leads humanitarian missions to the Himalayas, bringing scores of eye surgeons to perform cataract surgery on the Nepalese at altitude (apparently, the incidence of cataracts is much much higher for people who live at high altitude, and there are 50 million functionally blind people there because of cataracts), leads teaching expeditions to Africa to teach domestic surgeons the latest techniques in eye surgery, etc.

He absolutely botched my eye (only one eye needed cataract surgery). I was naturally 20/200 nearsighted. When I woke up, the repaired eye was now 20/200 farsighted. "I've never had such a miss in my entire surgical career," he said. It is as if he inserted someone else's inter-ocular lens. Moreover the physics of light transmission are such that eyeglasses would no longer work for me (extreme nearsightedness in one eye coupled with extreme farsightedness in the other eye makes it not work -- although the same physics enable correction via contact lenses, so that's what I did.)


Maybe I'm just unlucky.

[NewbieHere]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

If CA single payer passed (and I predict about a 50/50 chance it will go through), I predict it would end California. Not some post-apocalyptic zombie end, but just a quicker economic end to the state as a whole. Think Detroit post 1970.

It would effectively chase out all taxpayers, small businesses, and large businesses.

Literally nothing could save the state from economic collapse if Democrats choose to triple taxes to support this socialist behemoth.

They also have not taking into account of out of state people who will come here. Huge cost.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

If CA single payer passed (and I predict about a 50/50 chance it will go through), I predict it would end California.

As evidenced by your prior posts, seems that you're always hoping for an "end" for California,
https://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...dical-aca.html

As others have asked, but you've conveniently ignored, what's your solution?

[CA4Now]

It's doubtful that the insurance industry will allow this to get very far.

"There’d be more upheaval for those who work in the insurance industry. Since the program would virtually eliminate the role of private insurance in the state’s healthcare market, the Senate analysis predicts that those workers “and many individuals who provide administrative support to providers would lose their jobs.”

What would California's proposed single-payer healthcare system mean for me? - LA Times

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by Chava61

NY State as well as California is considering Universal Health Care for its residents:
New York and California Consider Single-Payer Health Care

Naturally, the 2 most socialist states, and the states that pushed Clinton over the popular vote win. Now you see why the electoral college is so crucial to this country? We can't have the lunatic fringes bankrupting the middle class.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by StanleysOwl

It's a valid argument with no clear answer. Doctors motivated by profit aren't necessarily the best servants of healthy outcomes - let alone patient pocketbooks. For example:
Ian Paterson: 'He took a pound of flesh for money' - BBC News
You can read about charlatan MD's all around the world.

Having an "eye on making $300,000 a year as a surgeon" doesn't guarantee competence or ethics.

It is at least equally arguable that individuals motivated to serve humanity will be as likely or more so to exercise the greatest care and responsibility toward patients.

Thus, if we consider doctors serving elective procedures compared with doctors serving emergency and debilitating conditions we might find the profit motive providing great excellence in electives and the altruists doing best with emergencies and chronic diseases.

Meanwhile, doctors in many 'socialized medicine' systems contribute to better health outcomes for dollars spent than we get here in profit-driven, free-market capitalist America. It's well documented we spend more for worse outcomes.

Bull.

The U.S Healthcare industry has BY FAR the most technological & medical patents in the world by a factor of 10. Modern medicine was pushed forward BY LEAGUES due to U.S capitalist pursuits in healthcare and medicine.

Show me the "socialized systems" that contribute to better health outcomes ABSENT OF individual health choices. Spoiler: It doesn't exist.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

I rate the chance at less than 10%. The purpose of CA Single Payer is to influence voter behaviour in the next statewide election, not to actually become law. Most everyone agrees the health care system is screwed up, and it is a great way to try to influence who gets elected. You can already see the ads targeting evil non-progressives who want Grandma to die because she doesn't have meds, and is at home with the electricity disconnected, eating dry cat food...

You have FAR more trust in the California lemming voter than I do. This is the same voter who voted in some of the highest systematic tax burdens upon themselves in 2016, while at the same time complaining they can't afford anything in the state from housing to gas.

You really think a voter that stupid is going to turn down "free" health care?

We'll see.