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They also have not taking into account of out of state people who will come here. Huge cost.
True. Also the illegal alien coverage as well. I am totally in support of seeing this pass. I want the world to witness, and then learn, how democrat policies destroyed the 6th biggest economy in the world. It would totally reform education in economics throughout universities.
You have FAR more trust in the California lemming voter than I do. This is the same voter who voted in some of the highest systematic tax burdens upon themselves in 2016, while at the same time complaining they can't afford anything in the state from housing to gas.
You really think a voter that stupid is going to turn down "free" health care?
We'll see.
I wasn't clear in my post. What I meant was politicians will run on the "free" health care platform. And, as you point out, the voters will indeed vote in those candidates. But once the candidates are in, they will never deliver on the promise because the economics are not there.
Thus -- it influences voter behaviour and voters will vote into office highly progressive politicians. At that point, it is "mission accomplished" from the point of view of those politicians and the Party Bosses. Then, they will be tasked with implement Single Payer, at which time magically it never comes out of committee.
The U.S Healthcare industry has BY FAR the most technological & medical patents in the world by a factor of 10. Modern medicine was pushed forward BY LEAGUES due to U.S capitalist pursuits in healthcare and medicine.
Show me the "socialized systems" that contribute to better health outcomes ABSENT OF individual health choices. Spoiler: It doesn't exist.
Amusing as hell. Profit motive does spur innovation. But technical innovation does not necessarily translate to better health outcomes for society as a whole, let alone for individual patients. If it did America would be the world's healthiest nation. It's not. As many technical patents and drugs as we have, we fall further and further into greater and greater % of devastating non-communicable disease throughout society. The majority of med-tech has the surreptitious effect of selling confidence to the public that poor lifestyles are acceptable because 'tech' is at hand to save us from ourselves. It is then used to fleece the sick whose self-destructive behaviors its false promises of confidence have enabled.
Profit motive results in competition. Excellence may occur, but not necessarily. Competition is not oriented to excellence as an outcome. It's not even oriented to excellence as a methodology. Competition will do as little as possible, and without regard to excellence, to achieve profit. That's it.
Excellence in providing the best for patients' health is foremost derived from genuine concern.
I wasn't clear in my post. What I meant was politicians will run on the "free" health care platform. And, as you point out, the voters will indeed vote in those candidates. But once the candidates are in, they will never deliver on the promise because the economics are not there.
Thus -- it influences voter behaviour and voters will vote into office highly progressive politicians. At that point, it is "mission accomplished" from the point of view of those politicians and the Party Bosses. Then, they will be tasked with implement Single Payer, at which time magically it never comes out of committee.
I could see that. You're basically describing the Vermont case where it died because no one could figure out how to finance it, but by that time, everyone had gotten their assembly seats secured.
I still think there's a huge risk this makes it to ballot to force the issue because of the Referenda process in California. You have the entirety of the healthcare industry in California willing to back it. Very powerful unionized thugs who would love to guarantee their golden goose for decades (until the state went bankrupt).
Amusing as hell. Profit motive does spur innovation. But technical innovation does not necessarily translate to better health outcomes for society as a whole, let alone for individual patients. If it did America would be the world's healthiest nation. It's not.
That's INDIVIDUAL health choice. People are fat as **** in America. Is that the fault of the healthcare system?
In those socialized Scandinavian countries where there isn't a $2 McDonald's Big mac special on every block, and millions of fat *******s with no self control eating processed sugar and salt in every spoonful of food, of course they can point to their "outcomes" and say "Yes' we're better."
Like I said, find me a study, article, or anything that shows socialized healthcare leads to better outcomes OUTSIDE of individual health choice.
That's INDIVIDUAL health choice. People are fat as **** in America. Is that the fault of the healthcare system?
In those socialized Scandinavian countries where there isn't a $2 McDonald's Big mac special on every block, and millions of fat *******s with no self control eating processed sugar and salt in every spoonful of food, of course they can point to their "outcomes" and say "Yes' we're better."
Like I said, find me a study, article, or anything that shows socialized healthcare leads to better outcomes OUTSIDE of individual health choice.
Oh? Now you want to redefine the parameters? Ok.
Back to the essential question: does technology create better health outcomes?
Ans: no ... better health is a result of very basic individual choices in almost all people.
Doesn't matter whether the system is socialized or profit-driven. That was entirely the point. Except in a profit-driven system you won't ever find simple, lifestlye-choice solutions prescribed over expensive tech and pharma ... because .... there's no money in being 'simply' healthy.
Thus all your 10x med-tech patents are worthwhile only to profit-driven charlatans.
Bottom line: American high-tech-for-profit-driven medicine is fleecing the public while encouraging bad lifestyles to feed its clientele.
I didn't change anything, you either misread my post, or simply missed where I pointed out specifically individual health choices.
My original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration
Show me the "socialized systems" that contribute to better health outcomes ABSENT OF individual health choices. Spoiler: It doesn't exist.
See?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleysOwl
better health is a result of very basic individual choices in almost all people.
Okay, good, something we can agree on.
Now, assume all people make good individual health choices. Which people will live longer, the people within the system with all the technological innovation in medicine, or the people in the system that is slower to innovate?
That's INDIVIDUAL health choice. People are fat as **** in America. Is that the fault of the healthcare system?
In those socialized Scandinavian countries where there isn't a $2 McDonald's Big mac special on every block, and millions of fat *******s with no self control eating processed sugar and salt in every spoonful of food, of course they can point to their "outcomes" and say "Yes' we're better."
Like I said, find me a study, article, or anything that shows socialized healthcare leads to better outcomes OUTSIDE of individual health choice.
Let me help you out, it doesn't ****ing exist.
There are three basic problems.
1. Doctors, Nurses, Pharmaceutical Companies, Medical equipment manufacturers and lawyers all want to make as much as they can from... people's health issues (Note all business want to make more money so this is normal). Being a free society where controlling such costs is almost impossible, this will mean any plan will have problems and costs will rise. While the Government sets a limit on some costs for medicare, there is also a co-payment or you pay for part "D", etc. This drives cost as much as medical needs.
2. People refusing to eat properly and live a life style that is healthy. It is true many people are living basically paycheck to paycheck that they can only survive by eating off the dollar menus and ......... eating really junky food. Then the food volume. For years it has been advised that "active" people eat 2000 calories a day. There are fast foods that as a "meal" can come close or even exceed that. In the US the amount of food served is wayyyyy larger as to portions than in say Europe and ................ 1/5 the sugar used there, which is a major reason for a lot of health and weight issues. Now inactive people, as in desk jobs, retired, etc should be well below 2000 calories unless .... they exercise just about every day.
3. Poor quality of food. I am not talking about Fast food but just about everything we eat. Loaded with chemicals, artificial in many case like a lot of blueberry's and even honey to name a few foods that are supposed to be good. The amount of chemicals including Sugar and Salt is so high that it causes poor health. While it is claimed it is safe, it isn't healthy at all. Oh but it tastes sooo good. Yeah more sugar as we have been so loaded with it we can't taste it unless it is in large amounts. Had some friends from the UK out to dinner at a very popular restaurant in SoCal and they had 2 girls 8 and 10. They ordered a desert that is very popular and after two bites (Ice cream) the said they could not eat any more it was sooo sweet. When we first visited Europe we were looking forward to some French pasties, oooh were they bland. After being there for a while they tasted .. sweeter. We eat wayyyy too much sugar and then there is salt ...........
No health plan will change this, they just move what is paid for around. I have spoken to a number of doctors now and all absolutely agree that medicine is no longer valuable as the new treatments not only have such bad side effects, they do not stop or correct the problem, they just lower it to some degree. ONLY a life style change will improve societies health. As people get problems, and more and more will, the costs have to go up and ... care will either be even more expensive or care will go down. If we got healthier, like many European Countries, our health care costs would drop, well at least for a while and then the ones making money off it would jack up the costs so they did not lose money.
Health care is a political issue to get elected and has virtually nothing really to do with good health care for people.
95% of health problems in the U.S are poor individual choices.
People in this country are way too quick to shove garbage into their mouths, gain 100 pounds, and then go to the doctor and ask them to "fix me".
When I was 30, I weighed 220 pounds (heaviest of my life). I was out of the Army for a while, could barely run a mile, and had lots of injuries. I cut out soda entirely (I went from 10 cokes a week to 1 coke every month or so). I also stopped buying salt altogether. I season my food with non-sodium based seasoning. I also changed my portion size to whatever I could fit into one hand, 4 times a day.
Now I hover between 170 and 180 pounds, and I run 2-3 miles every morning in under 20 minutes followed by a 1 hour weight session. I'm more healthy now in my 40s than I was in my 20s.
95% of health problems in the U.S are poor individual choices.
People in this country are way too quick to shove garbage into their mouths, gain 100 pounds, and then go to the doctor and ask them to "fix me".
When I was 30, I weighed 220 pounds (heaviest of my life). I was out of the Army for a while, could barely run a mile, and had lots of injuries. I cut out soda entirely (I went from 10 cokes a week to 1 coke every month or so). I also stopped buying salt altogether. I season my food with non-sodium based seasoning. I also changed my portion size to whatever I could fit into one hand, 4 times a day.
Now I hover between 170 and 180 pounds, and I run 2-3 miles every morning in under 20 minutes followed by a 1 hour weight session. I'm more healthy now in my 40s than I was in my 20s.
Yes, we are killing ourselves and the doctors are just slowing it a bit and leave us felling bad while still alive and we pay for that in money and pain and boredom.
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