Complaining about California, a poll. (Los Angeles: attorney, purchase, live in)

[Highnlite]

there are crazy people, those include the birthers who refuse to believe in the proof shown them. And there are the folks who believe stuff without critical thinking.
Now, my friend also said that Obama was born in the territory of Hawaii and there fore was not a citizen of the US, never mind that Obama was born after Hawaii became a state, some clown, Glenn Beck likely said he was born while Hawaii was a territory, and she believed him. Just like Glenn Beck said Obama is in favor of wealth redistribution and hates white people.

People will believe anything, and their beliefs are stronger than data.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

It is important to remember also, just for fun, every modern industrial nation in the world today, including those wealthier than the US, with better quality of life than the US, as measured by a number of different parameters, are all Socialist to one degree or another.

I think about that when the Fire Department responds and does not bill, as they did prior to becoming Socialist entities.

Eight years of living in the UK with a socialistic health care, dental and governmental system leads me to strongly disagree with your comments regarding better quality of life than in the US. Any mere tourist to the UK might think everything there is rosy, but stay long enough to live with the average Brit, in a standard council estate, and you'll see just how poor the quality of life really is. By the way, a large majority of people in the UK live off of government benefits and those who wish to get off benefits and be gainfully employed are finding it impossible due to the even worse lack of jobs situation than we are suffering. The government, finally coming to the conclusion that socialism is NOT working for them, have now decided to try and get most people off of benefits and into work. However, because jobs are very hard to come by they are going to change the rules by ending FULL TIME employment for almost everyone, and instead only allow companies to offer part-time employment. This is fact, coming straight from my family and friends (including my son) who currently live and WORK in the UK.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

but stay long enough to live with the average Brit, in a standard council estate, and you'll see just how poor the quality of life really is. By the way, a large majority of people in the UK live off of government benefits...

Sounds like an episode of Shameless.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Voyageur

A Certificate of Live Birth is a birth certificate. I have the birth certificates of my wife and I right here at my desk. Though we were not born in Hawaii, both birth certificates are titled Certificate of Live Birth. In fact, nowhere on either of them does the phrase "birth certificate" appear. They are photocopies of hard-copy originals, because when we obtained them in the 1980s, this is how such things were issued. Each features an embossed seal and a signature. The birth certificates of my children, issued much later, in the 1990s, are not photocopies. Nor are they originals. They are laser-printed forms with all relevant details, much like that of the President. And they have the state seal on them. But the seal is not embossed. And the only 'signatures' are laser-printed and clearly not unique to each document. If I were to obtain a birth certificate today, one of these laser-printed forms is what I would receive. And guess what? All five of these certificates have been used as proof of United States citizenship because my wife and I and our three children all hold United States passports, and we presented these very documents as the evidence of our American citizenship when we obtained those passports.

Yes, the Certificate of Live Birth is the long form of the so-called birth certificate, while the Certification of Live Birth is the short form, and not often accepted as proof. Many official agencies still require the long form as proof. I have no problem with agreeing that the information I've based my statement on is outdated or incorrect. Anything on the internet, no matter how official sounding, must be viewed with caution. Plus, the genealogical community often gets stuck on relying on old tried & true research criterias.

I'm looking at it this way...you and High have added valuable information, which helps me to re-evaluate and adjust my research criteria in the future. I can be stubborn when I feel strongly about something, but I am also very reasonable when I've been shown evidence which is contrary to what I've known or believed

[Fontucky]

Consider this as well: If there was any meat to this issue, wouldn't the opposition have gleefully run with it prior to the last Presidential election?

[Voyageur]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

Yes, the Certificate of Live Birth is the long form of the so-called birth certificate, while the Certification of Live Birth is the short form, and not often accepted as proof. Many official agencies still require the long form as proof. I have no problem with agreeing that the information I've based my statement on is outdated or incorrect. Anything on the internet, no matter how official sounding, must be viewed with caution. Plus, the genealogical community often gets stuck on relying on old tried & true research criterias.

I'm looking at it this way...you and High have added valuable information, which helps me to re-evaluate and adjust my research criteria in the future. I can be stubborn when I feel strongly about something, but I am also very reasonable when I've been shown evidence which is contrary to what I've known or believed

Well, as I said, the State Department of the United States of America issued my three children passports based on the short form. And I am unaware of any agencies requiring more substantial proof of birth than is the Department of State when one wants to hold a United States passport. But I, too, am open to evidence. When it is provided.

[Highnlite]

Yep, We have 5 passports, all received from the State Department using the Certification of Birth.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

Yep, We have 5 passports, all received from the State Department using the Certification of Birth.

Yet when I applied for my passport and my childen's when we lived in AZ the so-called "short form" was not accepted. That was back in 2000. It also might be down to WHO you are dealing with in the process. Kind of like the apartment leasing business. Some companies insist on being able to contact your current landlord, while others do not need to do so. But in any case it has been a learning experience

[Twinkle Toes]

Originally Posted by Voyageur

Of course the state of Hawaii has not done so - they have no right to 'show' (release to the public) someones birth certificate. Do you think I can go to public records of the state/county/city where you were born, just ask to see your birth certificate, and that they'll say "Sure, here, have a look, can we make you a few copies to take with you?". Do you think you can do they same for my birth certificate?
However, the Obama campaign has released a copy. And it's been certified by virtually everyone except the tinfoil-hat crowd. It's been verified by Hawaii's Republican Governor. It's been verified by the Hawaii State Director of Health, who was appointed by Hawaii's Republican Governor.

http://static.politifact.com.s3.amaz...hCertObama.jpg
PolitiFact | Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

No, they did not. People can still request to see it. But repeated requests - ie, those requests issued periodically by the same individuals who previously issued such requests - may now be summarily ignored because they're pointlessly costing the state money by tilting at a ridiculous political windmill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us.../14hawaii.html

Not surprisingly, your claim of stopping people is much more ominous than the mundane reality.

Here's a nice summation of the Onion-esque issue:
Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not getting into this Obama birth certificate debate, but as a PUBLIC RECORD - yes ... if I ask to see your birth certificate, I can not only see it, but I can purchase a copy of it.

[NewCalifornian]

I think the right-wing superminority is permanently blocking bills that would balance our budget. Isntead, they want us to spend billions on prisons and highways instead of High-speed rail and Single-Payer Health care which would reduce government spending over the time. This is a blue stronghold. When you want lower taxes, no environmental protection, discrmination, guns and liquor stores then move out.