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How are inspectors accountable for their actions? Have you ever started a food service business and had to deal with them? Or are you just talking out of your a$$ as usual?
How are inspectors accountable? Its a bit said that you don't know... The inspectors form for the health department, they will have bosses. The health department and its agents must always act within the law an individual and/or business can always take the health department and/or its agents to court. Welcome to the legal system of the United States of America.
In terms of talking out of my rear, no I leave that up to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maschuette
Your really good at looking things up arnt ya. Well smarty pants, why dont you look it up for me and then send me the link?
Sure, you can find the food code for coles county here:
How are inspectors accountable? Its a bit said that you don't know... The inspectors form for the health department, they will have bosses. The health department and its agents must always act within the law an individual and/or business can always take the health department and/or its agents to court. Welcome to the legal system of the United States of America.
In terms of talking out of my rear, no I leave that up to you.
Sure, you can find the food code for coles county here:
Let me explain how the real world works to someone living in a bubble. The health inspector is in charge of the county. Yes, he has bosses, who are the next line of bureaucrats that dont care (its not their money either). But the health inspector gives the OK for a restaurant and he also does surprise inspections and he can shut someone down for any mistake. That doesnt sound like someone you want to attack in court, that is if you even want to stay open.
Yeah, thats the link, didnt see anything about sink size...so i guess you were wrong.
Let me explain how the real world works to someone living in a bubble.
Yeah, my bubble has courts and lawyers in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maschuette
But the health inspector gives the OK for a restaurant and he also does surprise inspections and he can shut someone down for any mistake. That doesnt sound like someone you want to attack in court, that is if you even want to stay open.
A health inspector can't shut you do for "any mistake", some violations require closing the restaurant until its fixed and others don't.
A health inspector that doesn't respect the code he is hired to enforce is exactly the sort of person you want to attack in court, again and again.
Businesses take regulators, the IRS, etc to court all the time. That is the real world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maschuette
Yeah, thats the link, didnt see anything about sink size...so i guess you were wrong.
Wrong about what? You asked me for the food codes for Coles County and I gave them to you. I never stated whether they codified the requirements for sink size or not, the code does say many things about hand-washing sinks though. I don't have the time to read the entire thing to see whether it mentions size though.
It was easy for me to look it up for my area, here in business hassle California things tend to be well organized.
Anyhow, I really don't care whether IL codifies the size of hand-washing sink or not. Your store was not a story of government abuse, it was rather normal. When you open a food establishment you first submit plans and then your place is inspected before you get your permit. If the inspector finds some things that aren't fully up to code he will ask you to fix it. Now, due to your underlying ideological, you interpret this as government abuse because "it seems fine to me". Someone else may be happy that the inspector pointed out a potential problem, after all the inspectors do have a lot of experience in food safety.
A health inspector can't shut you do for "any mistake", some violations require closing the restaurant until its fixed and others don't.
A health inspector that doesn't respect the code he is hired to enforce is exactly the sort of person you want to attack in court, again and again.
Businesses take regulators, the IRS, etc to court all the time. That is the real world.
Wrong about what? You asked me for the food codes for Coles County and I gave them to you. I never stated whether they codified the requirements for sink size or not, the code does say many things about hand-washing sinks though. I don't have the time to read the entire thing to see whether it mentions size though.
It was easy for me to look it up for my area, here in business hassle California things tend to be well organized.
Anyhow, I really don't care whether IL codifies the size of hand-washing sink or not. Your store was not a story of government abuse, it was rather normal. When you open a food establishment you first submit plans and then your place is inspected before you get your permit. If the inspector finds some things that aren't fully up to code he will ask you to fix it. Now, due to your underlying ideological, you interpret this as government abuse because "it seems fine to me". Someone else may be happy that the inspector pointed out a potential problem, after all the inspectors do have a lot of experience in food safety.
You implied earlier that i was too lazy or a "pushover" because i couldnt find the size of the sink or whatever and how easy you could find it in your own area and blah blah blah. And now that you couldnt find it for Il all of sudden you dont care and it isnt about that and blah blah blah. Your wrong, the inspector was a dick, they have a lot of authority (because every little thing cant be written in a book of codes) i did an excellent job preparing but he had to nit pick until he found something, so that is what he chose.
I dont have a problem with the structure as much as the people. The people, like any of us who are given too much authority, feel entitled. My solution would be to elect health inspectors so that they are held accountable. Most people are not in the food business, so they would only care about how clean restaurants are and such. But if someone was being a food nazi and making it hard for businesses to stay open then word would get around and the would send him packing. Problem solved.
Or we could lawyer up over every disaggreement....
You implied earlier that i was too lazy or a "pushover" because i couldnt find the size of the sink or whatever and how easy you could find it in your own area and blah blah blah.
I implied that what you're talking about isn't a big deal at all. Whether it was something you missed or whether it is a topic that isn't clearly stated in their code really doesn't matter. You are using this as an example of government abuse, but where is it? The inspector didn't think your hand-washing sink was appropriate and asked you to fix the issue, how is that government abuse? If this happened to me I'd ask him what he thought was best, fix it, and focus on my business. The costs here are so small its not even worth thinking about.
A health inspector that "nik picks" is doing his job. There are many issues that seem small, but can have really bad outcomes. As I said before, you are treating the health inspector like he is an annoying fly in your face instead of treating him as a knowledgeable individual in food safety.
You will get a lot further if you treat regulators as the latter. They, like all, people will be effected by how you treat them.
I implied that what you're talking about isn't a big deal at all. Whether it was something you missed or whether it is a topic that isn't clearly stated in their code really doesn't matter. You are using this as an example of government abuse, but where is it? The inspector didn't think your hand-washing sink was appropriate and asked you to fix the issue, how is that government abuse? If this happened to me I'd ask him what he thought was best, fix it, and focus on my business. The costs here are so small its not even worth thinking about.
A health inspector that "nik picks" is doing his job. There are many issues that seem small, but can have really bad outcomes. As I said before, you are treating the health inspector like he is an annoying fly in your face instead of treating him as a knowledgeable individual in food safety.
You will get a lot further if you treat regulators as the latter. They, like all, people will be effected by how you treat them.
How you would handle it and how i did handle it are exactly the same. I am allowed to be pissed off, even if it seems inconsequential, by nit picking that has no greater need. Having said that, i was very polite and professional. I might come off as an arrogant prick on this forum, but i am surprising humble and respectful in real life. While doing research in this area i met many business owners who told me horror stories about this particular health inspector. So how did i deal with him? I killed him with kindness. It was amazing to me how nasty his secretary would answer the phone but i would always keep my composure and do what i was told and 3 months later i got my approval. The secretary even took me aside one time and told me how much the health inspector appreciated my patience and politeness and thats why he always bumps my appointments up to the top of the list. I wonder what he did with the appointments that were not on his good side (another reason why lawyers are last ditch efforts). I never called it government abuse, it is more along the lines of government ineffeciency.
I never called it government abuse, it is more along the lines of government ineffeciency.
You'll find inefficiencies throughout the economy whether its the government or a private business. And yes, you were using these as examples of government abuse, or rather cases of "unneeded regulations". You haven't shown why either of the cases was inappropriate, just that there was a conflict between what you thought was okay and what the local officials thought was okay. And this is usually the issue, small business folks don't like to be told what to do (often that is why they are small business owners) and get annoyed when a regulator tells them what to do. Whether or not the regulations make sense for society don't enter the picture, its just the personal conflict that is center stage.
From the state, to the local townships, I hear horror stories.
OSHA, designed to protect workers but has morphed into a US Government thug organization, recently fined one of my customers $25,000.
Why?
There are areas of the plant where respirators are required which the company supplies, maintains and requires their use. No problem here.
In areas where respirators are not required the company offers the little face masks, free of charge, to any worker that wants to use one. OSHA has found this to be a violation claiming it gives workers a "false sense of protection" so masks outside the areas where they are required are not longer made available.
Another big fine was once a year the employer (this is all voluntary) asks workers to fill out a short form indicating if they have had any problems with breathing. If the employee says yes the company sends them to have a medical checkout completely free of charge. Big time violation here with a fine of $65,000 for violating workers rights and laws on medical privacy. You would think they would simply be given a warning and told not to do it again but it doesn't work like that.
This is why 75% of the federal workforce needs to be cut off.... laid off, thrown out of a job because these people are our nations biggest enemy.
You'll find inefficiencies throughout the economy whether its the government or a private business. And yes, you were using these as examples of government abuse, or rather cases of "unneeded regulations". You haven't shown why either of the cases was inappropriate, just that there was a conflict between what you thought was okay and what the local officials thought was okay. And this is usually the issue, small business folks don't like to be told what to do (often that is why they are small business owners) and get annoyed when a regulator tells them what to do. Whether or not the regulations make sense for society don't enter the picture, its just the personal conflict that is center stage.
Ineffeicencies in the private business doesnt hurt anyone but themselves unlike inefficiencies in the government, which does nothing but feed off the people.
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