And then there were two... (Boston: moving to, authority, race)

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

As I have commented in an earlier post, the census is not a good measure of one's race or ethnicity. I won't go so far to say it is outright racist but the classification formula the census uses was quite obviously created decades ago when individuals did not think twice about critiquing ethnic classification the way they do now. The US Census has its reasons for such blanket categorizations but we don't have the time to discuss about them here. I had a Turkish friend in college who looked very Mediterranean and could easily pass off French, Spanish or Italian but considered herself and all other Turks as Asian. My friend even went so far to say that anyone who did not think Turks were Asians are all idiots. So really it comes down to how and what the individual considers him/herself to be. There is no sense in cramming racial or ethnic identity down one's throat and so if Essaibi-George identifies as a person of color as she told the Boston Globe https://www.universalhub.com/2021/es...erson-color-so, so be it. I'm not one who would tell Essaibi-George straight in her face "Give it up, you're White! The US Census says so!"

If the census isn't a good measure... what about your own eyes?

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

Not directing this at you, but the US has a big issue with blanketing people as 'white' 'black' 'asian'.

These distinctions "made sense" in a segregated society with people from selected areas for each category. White = northwestern Europeans, black = west Africa former slaves, Asians= Chinese.
With intermarriage, massive immigration from southern Europe first, then south Asia and central/south America, new African immigration etc it stopped make sense quite some time ago.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by Lampert

The census can change their mind easily. Next time they add MENA and all of the sudden a lot of people go from white to non-white. Whiteout anything changing about those people.

Also, to post pictures of Tunisians to show they are white simply doesn't make any sense.
In the "old world" none identifies as "white". A Greek would never put himself/herself in the same category as a Finn or a Tunisian. That's simply not a thing, it doesn't cross people mind. It's probably easier to integrate in Greece for someone from Senegal than someone from Turkey.

In the context of the US she should probably identify herself as either mixed or other. But ultimately that's really up to her and not us.

It makes sense in America in the context of identity politics / pop culture because it's more like the eye test until proven otherwise. Not saying that's right, but the fact that others care about it gives it weight. I don't care either way to be honest. I'm not gonna stop her from being POC. To be fair Logic the rapper looks just as white as her so stranger things have happened.


Mainsteam US pop culture doesn't know or care if that Turkish guy Urban Peasant mentioned is Balkar or Bashkir. They don't care if a person is Turkic or Arab or some swarthy European. I would say at least 90% people on the street don't even there are tensions between Greece and Turkey. Most people don't have a clue or care, they just go by their eyes unless proven otherwise and lump everyone into the same handful of broad buckets.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by Space_League

It makes sense in America in the context of identity politics / pop culture because it's more like the eye test until proven otherwise. Not saying that's right, but the fact that others care about it gives it weight. I don't care either way to be honest. I'm not gonna stop her from being POC. To be fair Logic the rapper looks just as white as her so stranger things have happened.

Race isn't just about your skin color. A Muslim may look white to the average American but do you think he/she is going to be treated the same than the average white when he/she moves to a small town in the mid-west?
By some metric people from the horn of Africa are also Caucasians but in the today US Caucasian/white means European/European descent.

I guess if you wanted to be accurate than you would make MENA as a new ethnicity (like Latino) making it irrelevant if they want to identify themselves as white or not. White Latino are considered POC, so it would be the same for with MENA. The problem becomes, why keep the race category at all then? Why not just switch to a purely ethnicity-based system then and drop the white, black, Asian categories? Are you latino? European? East Asian? West African? etc etc.

[WestieWhitie]

Skin color of the candidate matters a lot more than their policies, apparently.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by Lampert

Race isn't just about your skin color. A Muslim may look white to the average American but do you think he/she is going to be treated the same than the average white when he/she moves to a small town in the mid-west?
By some metric people from the horn of Africa are also Caucasians but in the today US Caucasian/white means European/European descent.

I guess if you wanted to be accurate than you would make MENA as a new ethnicity (like Latino) making it irrelevant if they want to identify themselves as white or not. White Latino are considered POC, so it would be the same for with MENA. The problem becomes, why keep the race category at all then? Why not just switch to a purely ethnicity-based system then and drop the white, black, Asian categories? Are you latino? European? East Asian? West African? etc etc.

Yes. Because the people most likely treat them worse are least likely to consider that there are Caucasian Muslims and Arab Christians etc they are most likely to just see it in the broadest categories and on the most surface level analysis

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by Space_League

Yes. Because the people most likely treat them worse are least likely to consider that there are Caucasian Muslims and Arab Christians etc they are most likely to just see it in the broadest categories and on the most surface level analysis

So they are supposed to just stay closeted the entire time? Maybe go to church too?

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by Lampert

So they are supposed to just stay closeted the entire time? Maybe go to church too?

Well then it becomes a religious intolerance and not a racial one. If some Chechen family moved to the same town they would face the same kind of issues. In Russia they might not be white but they are caucasian slavic people and definitely white by US standards.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Semantics aside does anyone here think Anissa George isn’t white?-not just cuz she says so but your actual own opinion.

[WestieWhitie]

Why does the color of her skin matter more than her policies? Do you really hate them whities so much you'd rather vote for a candidate whose policies will have you gentrified out in no time at all just because she's not visibly white?

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Semantics aside does anyone here think Anissa George isn’t white?-not just cuz she says so but your actual own opinion.