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Gee, you missed the part (in the next post I wrote after) : "No, these aren't pit-bulls or fighting dogs. But they are trained watch dogs. My wife's dog and mine are both certified hearing service dogs. Their tasks include alerting us to various alarms and our cell phone text signals. Another is to orient us toward approach of strangers. It isn't too hard to teach dogs these things if you pick the right temperament to start with. And, while I do not advocate for schutzhund / attack-dog training, a good watchdog is preferable to a gun, imho."
you really should meet some schutzhund dogs. the breeder that i'm looking to get my dog from understands the sport very well, understanding that a dog w/ a super strong drive doesn't make a great family pet. the example he gives is that the police and military dogs are treated different because that is all they do. most live in a kennels vs w/ a family.
for general population, he only recommends dogs that are well balanced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
Statistically, people arming themselves with guns, do have a much higher chance of someone they know dying by that same gun, than some intruder dying from it.
a lot of ppl i know would find your comment funny. but this would be because they were raised around firearms. their communities aren't as urban as hawaii. they hunt every season and the kids are taught to shoot at a young age. shooting is a high school sport.
at the same time you don't see much firearms related crimes in their towns. everyone has guns in their homes, and they have carry permits.
if you ever talk to serious gun owners, they know about the liability that comes w/ the hobby. it's not by chance that the fbi has insurance for the agents in case they have to shoot someone.
you really should meet some schutzhund dogs. the breeder that i'm looking to get my dog from understands the sport very well, understanding that a dog w/ a super strong drive doesn't make a great family pet. the example he gives is that the police and military dogs are treated different because that is all they do. most live in a kennels vs w/ a family.
for general population, he only recommends dogs that are well balanced.
Obviously, reading my posts, one can see I regard dogs more highly than humans I understand the schutzhund "sport" and training, and I don't have anything really against it ... my comments on the other thread were based in my belief that Hawaii is a place where one really doesn't need to go to much length to self-protect ... and I personally don't care for encouraging a culture of fear and suspicion where it isn't called for. What little violent crime exists in Hawaii is almost entirely limited to people who are interacting with each other on a known criminal or hormonal basis. -- drug deals, hormonal young bucks fighting over nonsense, drunken grudges, domestic violence. The general population that keeps its nose out of those kinds of disputes has just about zero to fear -- unlike many places mainland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mokeanne
a lot of ppl i know would find your comment funny. but this would be because they were raised around firearms. their communities aren't as urban as hawaii. they hunt every season and the kids are taught to shoot at a young age. shooting is a high school sport.
at the same time you don't see much firearms related crimes in their towns. everyone has guns in their homes, and they have carry permits.
if you ever talk to serious gun owners, they know about the liability that comes w/ the hobby. it's not by chance that the fbi has insurance for the agents in case they have to shoot someone.
In this, I do not agree. Gangbangers and various breeds of criminals are "serious gun owners" ... incredible numbers of mentally unstable people are "serious gun owners" ... I realize you are referring to a specific class of "responsible gun owners" But anyone with a gun is a "gun owner" ... and, as I have said many times, the history of the human race is not encouraging when one is looking for mental health as a common commodity. We're a bunch of very volatile animals at heart ... natural born killers, really ... just a raw emotion away from going nuts with surprisingly little encouragement. Put in danger or intensely threatening emotions, humans are as vicious as any creature Hollywood has conjured. Been there -- done that.
a lot of ppl i know would find your comment funny. but this would be because they were raised around firearms. their communities aren't as urban as hawaii. they hunt every season and the kids are taught to shoot at a young age. shooting is a high school sport.
at the same time you don't see much firearms related crimes in their towns. everyone has guns in their homes, and they have carry permits.
if you ever talk to serious gun owners, they know about the liability that comes w/ the hobby. it's not by chance that the fbi has insurance for the agents in case they have to shoot someone.
That's a good point. I grew up predominately in rural Michigan, and it's certainly the case there. There is also very little crime there, but mostly because rural areas in general experience very little crime. So, them having guns, it's unlikely they'll ever have to consider using it on anyone.
But, this discussion often comes up in urban/suburban areas, where the only need anyone would have for a gun would be protection or criminal activities.
The gun issue seems to often imply that all urban/suburban people need to arm themselves with the teeth to protect them from 'people' in general. It's a lot to ask for, to have all people in urban and suburban to heavily arm themselves against all people, in general. Maybe our society is that dysfunctional, that it seems logical. I don't know. I hope our society isn't on the last legs to require that kind of necessity however.
But, in the rural areas, and most of my family and most of my old school friends, hunt religiously. I can certainly see their interest in guns, because of their lifestyle.
Regarding the Big Island Hawaii. I'm aware of boar hunting and a few other things. I can't really imagine the hunting culture to be anywhere even remotely as strong as it was in rural Michigan, or most any other rural areas in the U.S.
I suppose, in short, it's all relative. But, to be fair, you did make an excellent point for the perspective of rural dwellers who often go hunting.
A lot of pig hunters on this island don't use guns. They consider guns to be for wussies and use a knife to kill the pig. Which is absolutely nothing I'd want to do. Pigs are vicious and have razor sharp tusks and huge neck muscles to swing the tusks around with. I'd still guess that even though these pig hunters use knives to kill the pigs, they probably still have some guns for hunting anyway.
Nullgeo - I know you are ex-military and I don't always get along with them so well. But reading your posts, you seem like one cool dude! Sounds like you lead a very interesting life!
Nullgeo - I know you are ex-military and I don't always get along with them so well. But reading your posts, you seem like one cool dude! Sounds like you lead a very interesting life!
Nice of you to say so ... but I would say "escaped-military" might be more apt than "ex-military" ...
Statistically, people arming themselves with guns, do have a much higher chance of someone they know dying by that same gun, than some intruder dying from it.
I'm reluctant to get a handgun for that very reason.
A beautiful argument for a well-trained dog though.
G'morning!
If you're going to go the dog route, folks - get two. An armed robber/potential assailant can easily shoot one dog but he can't shoot two alert and on-the-move guard dogs with any degree of accuracy. Stats show that the second dog will instinctively attack an aggressive intruder, especially if both dogs are from the same litter ('pack' in their eyes). Every good policeman knows this as well as he knows donut shops!
Love to all and may God bless you.
Mahrie.
Edited to add: I had another thought (hey, it happens)! We don't own a hand gun but we do own a good hunting rifle and would like to get another one (just haven't had the time to visit the city lately). Our rifle is for hunting big game, such as moose, so it would do serious damage to a human, as is evidenced by the number of fatal hunting accidents reported annually.
Personally, I prefer proficiency in the Martial Arts - particularly Karate and Ju Jitsu - for self defense. My brother used to rank in the top 100 in the world in competitive Karate, and while I'm unsure of his standing at the moment, he's still regarded as a lethal weapon (legally). In my opinion, every healthy person should know enough Karate to defend themselves. It's quick, precise, highly effective, and it's over before most assailants know what hit them - and it's easy to learn.
Last edited by Mahrie; 01-05-2012 at 04:27 AM..
Reason: Mental constipation.
Home Invasions, Shotguns, Bad Dogs, Kill the Bad Guys
Yeah, It is real simple to prevent home invasions with the above. Some times it is better to take in a boarder to stay when you are not there. Old people who still know how to call 911 and handle a 12 gauge shot gun are my favorite. A bad dog or two are helpful - But dont depend only on the bad dog as I personally know the bad guys know very well how to terrorize a bad dog if no one is around to watch.
A very unhelpful practice is the habit of locking the gate out front when you are not around. It only sends a distinct signal to the bad guys that "No one is around."
Remember, if you shoot the bad guys and actually hit the target - if you dont Kill the Sons of Beaches, you will have to pay their FN medical costs. As their family will weep something fierce to the judge how that mean man took out our "breadwinner."
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I understand the schutzhund "sport" and training, and I don't have anything really against it ... my comments on the other thread were based in my belief that Hawaii is a place where one really doesn't need to go to much length to self-protect ... and I personally don't care for encouraging a culture of fear and suspicion where it isn't called for. What little violent crime exists in Hawaii is almost entirely limited to people who are interacting with each other on a known criminal or hormonal basis. -- drug deals, hormonal young bucks fighting over nonsense, drunken grudges, domestic violence. The general population that keeps its nose out of those kinds of disputes has just about zero to fear -- unlike many places mainland. 
... but I would say "escaped-military" might be more apt than "ex-military" ... 
Home Invasions, Shotguns, Bad Dogs, Kill the Bad Guys
