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I almost always agree with you, but I'm going to have to take issue with Horry even being in a Playoff or Finals performance HOF. Time blurs our memories so lets start from the beginning.
The guy played in 16 playoff series and averaged over 25minutes a game...where he managed to score about 8pts. a game and add another 5.6rebs and 2.4 assists shooting 36% from 3pt. range.
Some of his performances were um, poor...like in 02-03 when he shot 2-38 from 3pt. range with the Lakers and they got rid of him after that.
In 99-00 he shot a miserable 17-59 for the Lakers from 3pt. range. See his Finals performance below by game.
The guy was lucky enough to play a big chunk of his career with HOF centers and take lots of wide open shots. This generally made him the wildcard. When he HIT those shots he was the hero and when he missed people forgot because his team often won despite that lol.
Let's revisit 99-00, 6 game win over the Pacers in the finals. Good thing Horry was there to make those clutch 3-pointers in Game 6.
Pts/rebounds
Game 1: Shaq 43-19, Horry 6-4 (Horry 0/0 3pt)
Game 2: Shaq 40-24, Horry 7-6 (Horry 0/2 from 3pt.)
Game 3: Shaq 33-13, Horry 10-7 (Horry 0/2 from 3pt.)
Game 4: Shaq 36-21, Horry 17-6 (Horry 0/2 from 3pt.)
Game 5: Shaq 35-11, Horry 7-4 (Horry 1/6 from 3pt.)
Game 6: Shaq 41-12, Horry 8-4 (Horry 2/3 from 3pt.)
This was in his prime people. HOF? Seriously? Big Shot Bob is a fictional character created out of selective memory.
You make a solid point, Mathguy, but I wouldn't go that far either.
As Chip tried to imply in his post, Robert Horry was nothing more than a decent role player on teams carried mostly by their superstar players. That, and the fact that he got limited minutes as a role player, meant that yes, of course he wasn't going to put up the same numbers as Shaq (BTW - Shaq's stats against the Pacers were ridiculous ).
If I may elaborate my point, the two examples I mentioned of Horry's heroics took place in a series that went 7 games. Had Horry not hit that three when the ball was batted out to him against the Kings, and had he not stepped up his game in Game 5 against the Pistons, both of his teams could very well have lost in their respective series. That means Big Shot Rob would 'only' have won 5 championships, or even less, had he been a choker rather than an ice-cold assassin.
Analyzing his cumulative playoff stats does Horry no justice, IMO. As a role player, he won't look to score for much of the game - FWIW, his main role was to play defense and act as a threat to shoot from the 3-line. But he was given those scoring opportunities late in tight games - as the opposing defense smothered the teams' superstars, Horry was left relatively open and in position to capitalize whenever he got the ball. And we tend to remember when he did capitalize on those opportunities.
You make a solid point, Mathguy, but I wouldn't go that far either.
As Chip tried to imply in his post, Robert Horry was nothing more than a decent role player on teams carried mostly by their superstar players. That, and the fact that he got limited minutes as a role player, meant that yes, of course he wasn't going to put up the same numbers as Shaq (BTW - Shaq's stats against the Pacers were ridiculous ).
If I may elaborate my point, the two examples I mentioned of Horry's heroics took place in a series that went 7 games. Had Horry not hit that three when the ball was batted out to him against the Kings, and had he not stepped up his game in Game 5 against the Pistons, both of his teams could very well have lost in their respective series. That means Big Shot Rob would 'only' have won 5 championships, or even less, had he been a choker rather than an ice-cold assassin.
Analyzing his cumulative playoff stats does Horry no justice, IMO. As a role player, he won't look to score for much of the game - FWIW, his main role was to play defense and act as a threat to shoot from the 3-line. But he was given those scoring opportunities late in tight games - as the opposing defense smothered the teams' superstars, Horry was left relatively open and in position to capitalize whenever he got the ball. And we tend to remember when he did capitalize on those opportunities.
Yeah, but some of those game 7's were needed because he missed those open shots losing a game 3, 5 etc.
Horry was playing A LOT of minutes in that Pacers series and played mediocre to poor for a 6th man on the court 30minutes or so a night. They won despite his play because Shaq mauled the Pacers. Look at the 76er's series too.
He COST the Lakers a championship the last year he was with them. Also, you can stick in a number of 6th men that would also make those big wide-open 3's if not in a game 7 then maybe they make them in game 5 and end the series then lol.
Ice cold assassin? The guy launched a TON of 3's and in some games made them and some games missed them. When he would go 0-4 they'd lose, when he'd go 4-4 they'd win.
Since victorious playoff series end on WINS, it's no surprise that he made the big shots at the ends of some series. If he misses them game 5 but makes them in game 6...people forget game 5 and remember the "ice cold assassin" in game 6. lol.
Again, selective memory about a guy that played in over 200 playoff games.
It's like FG kicker that misses a 40yrd kick in the 3nd quarter but then makes one in the 4th with 2 seconds left on the clock. Is he better than the kicker that makes one in the 3rd and his team just kneels on the ball in the 4th for the win? Is the first kicker "clutch" lol?
Look at what he did in his last season with the Lakers, then let me know your thoughts.
Yeah, but some of those game 7's were needed because he missed those open shots losing a game 3, 5 etc.
Horry was playing A LOT of minutes in that Pacers series and played mediocre to poor for a 6th man on the court 30minutes or so a night. They won despite his play because Shaq mauled the Pacers. Look at the 76er's series too.
He COST the Lakers a championship the last year he was with them. Also, you can stick in a number of 6th men that would also make those big wide-open 3's if not in a game 7 then maybe they make them in game 5 and end the series then lol.
Ice cold assassin? The guy launched a TON of 3's and in some games made them and some games missed them. When he would go 0-4 they'd lose, when he'd go 4-4 they'd win.
Since victorious playoff series end on WINS, it's no surprise that he made the big shots at the ends of some series. If he misses them game 5 but makes them in game 6...people forget game 5 and remember the "ice cold assassin" in game 6. lol.
Again, selective memory about a guy that played in over 200 playoff games.
It's like FG kicker that misses a 40yrd kick in the 3nd quarter but then makes one in the 4th with 2 seconds left on the clock. Is he better than the kicker that makes one in the 3rd and his team just kneels on the ball in the 4th for the win? Is the first kicker "clutch" lol?
Look at what he did in his last season with the Lakers, then let me know your thoughts.
I'm looking at his playoff box scores on basketball-reference.com, and this is what I saw - he was a starter for most of the 02-03 playoffs. A starter! Granted, the other Lakers playing PF/SF were pretty crummy (Devean George, Slava Medvedenko, Rick Fox, Mark Madsen). The point it is that Robert Horry is not a starter-quality player, and I've never argued that he was. He's simply a solid role player who's good enough and clutch enough to come up big when he's needed (mostly when the superstars are double-teamed), but who can't produce big stats consistently enough to warrant anything other than bench minutes.
For the Pacers' series, they didn't need him to be anything but solid - they had Shaq and Kobe, one of the most dangerous combos of all time IMO. In fact, most teams didn't really need him to do anything other than defend, rebound, and score when needed (obviously, the 02-03 Lakers needed more out of him than he could handle).
And ultimately, that's the real story with Robert Horry. IMO, his main role was as a defensive player, not an offensive threat. Both the Spurs and the Lakers had the offensive threats they needed in guys like Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili - what they needed was a guy like Horry or Horace Grant, defenders and rebounders who can score out of a double team.
Could you have slotted a more productive 6th man, like Aaron McKie or Jason Terry, and have won more easily? Perhaps, perhaps not. We can never be sure. So you may argue that a more productive 6th man would have helped the Lakers and Spurs win more easily. But you can also argue that the results are already in, and his teams have already won those 7 championships.
I would argue that luck and having the right temperament and skill played a role in Horry's success. He definitely lucked into having Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan as teammates. But his ability to hit big shots wasn't merely luck - that comes from confidence, a trait that's not as widespread as you would think at this level, as well as ability. That's what I mean by the "ice-cold assassin" term I described him with. It doesn't mean he's always going to make the clutch shots - he's simply too streaky a player to do that on a consistent basis. But as I mentioned, he certainly has the confidence to make them every now and then.
On the same note, Kobe also has the confidence to make clutch shots as well, but his clutch FG% doesn't point to his being the best clutch shooter in the NBA (a claim everybody seems to make).
I'm looking at his playoff box scores on basketball-reference.com, and this is what I saw - he was a starter for most of the 02-03 playoffs. A starter! Granted, the other Lakers playing PF/SF were pretty crummy (Devean George, Slava Medvedenko, Rick Fox, Mark Madsen). The point it is that Robert Horry is not a starter-quality player, and I've never argued that he was. He's simply a solid role player who's good enough and clutch enough to come up big when he's needed (mostly when the superstars are double-teamed), but who can't produce big stats consistently enough to warrant anything other than bench minutes.
For the Pacers' series, they didn't need him to be anything but solid - they had Shaq and Kobe, one of the most dangerous combos of all time IMO. In fact, most teams didn't really need him to do anything other than defend, rebound, and score when needed (obviously, the 02-03 Lakers needed more out of him than he could handle).
And ultimately, that's the real story with Robert Horry. IMO, his main role was as a defensive player, not an offensive threat. Both the Spurs and the Lakers had the offensive threats they needed in guys like Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili - what they needed was a guy like Horry or Horace Grant, defenders and rebounders who can score out of a double team.
Could you have slotted a more productive 6th man, like Aaron McKie or Jason Terry, and have won more easily? Perhaps, perhaps not. We can never be sure. So you may argue that a more productive 6th man would have helped the Lakers and Spurs win more easily. But you can also argue that the results are already in, and his teams have already won those 7 championships.
I would argue that luck and having the right temperament and skill played a role in Horry's success. He definitely lucked into having Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan as teammates. But his ability to hit big shots wasn't merely luck - that comes from confidence, a trait that's not as widespread as you would think at this level, as well as ability. That's what I mean by the "ice-cold assassin" term I described him with. It doesn't mean he's always going to make the clutch shots - he's simply too streaky a player to do that on a consistent basis. But as I mentioned, he certainly has the confidence to make them every now and then.
On the same note, Kobe also has the confidence to make clutch shots as well, but his clutch FG% doesn't point to his being the best clutch shooter in the NBA (a claim everybody seems to make).
2003 playoffs vs. Spurs
Game 6: 2 pts in 23 minutes, 0-3 from 3pt range
Game 5: 6pts in 24 minutes, 0-6 from 3pt. range
Game 4: 0pts in 25 minutes, 0-1 from 3pt. range
Game 3: 13pts in 37 minutes, 0-3 from 3pt. range
Game 2: 2pts in 32 minutes, 0-2 from 3pt. range
Game 1: 3pts in 39 minutes, 0-3 from 3pt. range
So, even when he played more of a 6th man role with 23-25minutes, he stunk up the place. Seriously, he was ZERO FOR 17 from 3pt. range yes, the irony of the phrase "Ice-cold" is thick indeed.
The Spurs won game 1 by 5 points and game 5 by 2 points.
Those are both games they win easily if the "ice cold assassin" makes a few of those 3 pointers. Horry going just 3-17 from 3pt. distance wins the series.
The guy played in tons of big games over the years, you can't just cherry pick the successes. I point to Horry for the Lakers 2003 championship banner hanging over in the Spurs building lol.
I remember Game 1 Rockets v Spurs 1995 WCF where Horry hit the game winner from the top of the key. I believe those were his only points of the game.
No credit for being too chicken the rest of the game to warrant even being covered late in the game...nevermind that he got traded in 94 for not having the guts to shoot the ball, and would have been a Piston if Sean Elliott had passed his physical--of course, Sean Elliot's kidney problems found during said physical set up for a much better story a few years later.
Big Shot gets in the HOF. Not because of his stats over the years but because of his uncanny ability to hit enormously clutch shots in critically important situations. Case in point his huge three near the end of the 2005 Finals G5 at the Palace. The shot brought the series back to San Antonio where the Spurs would win the Championship. Awesome.
Big Shot gets in the HOF. Not because of his stats over the years but because of his uncanny ability to hit enormously clutch shots in critically important situations. Case in point his huge three near the end of the 2005 Finals G5 at the Palace. The shot brought the series back to San Antonio where the Spurs would win the Championship. Awesome.
He was so good he even won a championship for the Spurs when playing as a Laker. I think he shot 0-27 from 3pt. range that series.
Play on enough championship teams with dominant big men and being a 4th scoring option and you will get to launch a bunch of unguarded 3's in your career. Then just sit back and hope people only remember the ones you made.
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).
Granted, the other Lakers playing PF/SF were pretty crummy (Devean George, Slava Medvedenko, Rick Fox, Mark Madsen). The point it is that Robert Horry is not a starter-quality player, and I've never argued that he was. He's simply a solid role player who's good enough and clutch enough to come up big when he's needed (mostly when the superstars are double-teamed), but who can't produce big stats consistently enough to warrant anything other than bench minutes. 
