Anyone Attend an Atlanta "Tea Party"? (fit in, mortgage)

[back2dc]

Originally Posted by kagmypts

I would actually that fascism and socialism are not as different as they appear. In both systems, the government controls everything. True socialism has grown into fascism on many occasions.

Actually fascism exists for the will of the state over the people, not the will of the people over the state which is what communism (on the other end of the political spectrum) stands for. That's why it's called the People's Republic of China -- the people ostensibly come first. But, and there is a big BUT (read below).

Before I get any further, let's make it clear: Socialism is NOT communism. I wish people would stop saying comrade and all that nonsense when we're talking about socialism not communism.

What confuses people is that the Soviets and the Chinese imposed authoritarian (not fascist) governments in place in order to force their ideologies onto the people. The Soviet Union is not what Karl Marx had in mind. Because pure communism doesn't work -- it stifles creativity in humans and creates great inefficiencies.

Western Europe are democracies with a socialist/capitalist mix. The people are not in an authoritarian state. They can freely elect their leaders. But they've elected to have the gov't step in and help with health care because society has become too complex and capitalism is too self-serving to provide for the health of the citizens. We can't open police departments and fire departments to private enterprise -- look at Blackwater in Iraq to see the results. These are state-funded entities. Likewise healthcare has become profit-oriented in the USA -- and people's lives are at stake. Capitalism has failed in that regard.

Gotta to get to work, or I'd write more.

[plessthanpointohfive]

Originally Posted by gaflsc

Your ilk is "allowing" me? Wow, you've got that socialism-speak down, don't you? May I suggest you next practice your goose stepping?

Yeah, my "ilk" - Americans with their Constitution that "allows" us the freedom of protesting, free speech, etc....yeah, that's my "ilk"'s doing...right.

Angry dude...get a life.

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by gaflsc

You better be clear. Many Libertarians consider themselves Conservatives. Don't confuse Conservatism with automatically being a Republican. There are Conservative Democrats out there too...

Dude, if I was ever any more clearer, I'd be crystal clear like the ice water in the antarctic! I know that "Conservatism" isn't automatically a Republican or a Democrat but when listening to talk radio hosts like Neil Boortz and Michael Savage and listening to some of my "Conservative" co-workers rail on the supposedly "Socialist" Democrats, a different picture in my mind is painted.

Originally Posted by gaflsc

I'm a Conservative Libertarian, and my vote last November reflected such.

I'm pretty sure it does, but I'm more concerned with why all this discontent hasn't translated into third party voting by now. All these folks who attended the Tea Party at the capital last night should have already burned their Republican or Democrat party membership cards & become Libertarians in a true ballot-box revolutionary style. Otherwise, all I will see is more anti-Obama hot air.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens in the next voting cycle, especially at the state level.

[mmenomen]

I think taxes should be at a flat rate for all wage earners, no matter what you earn, you should pay a flat tax a percentage, say 10%. Paying anywhere from 20-40% when you factor in all taxes is horrible. I believe the tax rate in the US is now higher than that of those in the UK. The current system in the US is an abysmal failure and creates tax cheating because certain taxes are so high. I don't think the Fair Tax could be implemented properly though I think it might be a better alternative to the current system.

Taxes are too high in this country and government spending is out of control at the local, state and federal level and has been for quite some time, so I do think it is odd that these same protesters were not out in full force during the Bush43 years. No, I did not go protest, I cannot stomach Sean Hannity's radio show and I just do not understand his mass appeal.

I did have talk radio on earlier today and heard them just having a field day about the CNN female reporter who was very unprofessional when interviewing a tax protester. Yikes! -

You know what they say about arguing on the Interwebz ...

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by back2dc

Actually fascism exists for the will of the state over the people, not the will of the people over the state which is what communism (on the other end of the political spectrum) stands for. That's why it's called the People's Republic of China -- the people ostensibly come first. But, and there is a big BUT (read below).

Before I get any further, let's make it clear: Socialism is NOT communism. I wish people would stop saying comrade and all that nonsense when we're talking about socialism not communism.

What confuses people is that the Soviets and the Chinese imposed authoritarian (not fascist) governments in place in order to force their ideologies onto the people. The Soviet Union is not what Karl Marx had in mind. Because pure communism doesn't work -- it stifles creativity in humans and creates great inefficiencies.

Western Europe are democracies with a socialist/capitalist mix. The people are not in an authoritarian state. They can freely elect their leaders. But they've elected to have the gov't step in and help with health care because society has become too complex and capitalism is too self-serving to provide for the health of the citizens. We can't open police departments and fire departments to private enterprise -- look at Blackwater in Iraq to see the results. These are state-funded entities. Likewise healthcare has become profit-oriented in the USA -- and people's lives are at stake. Capitalism has failed in that regard.

Gotta to get to work, or I'd write more.

Wasn't Italy a fascist state during WWII? I heard that Mussolini was a big believer in private enterprise too. I think same could be said for Chile under the rule of General Augusto Pinochet, who on the one hand lead many free-market reforms in his country but on the other hand murdered many legitimate political opponents in the process.

[plessthanpointohfive]

Originally Posted by kagmypts

This blows my mind that you only paid ~13% last year at your income level. Our family brings in around the same amount (no investment property), and we paid over 2X as much as you did. We paid nearly 30%... hello AMT, no child deductions, etc. We paid about $40,000 more in taxes than you did for appx. the same income. Maybe you would feel differently about taxes if you were paying nearly $60K in taxes at your same income level!

It blew my mind, too. Just 5 years ago we were making about half this and paying closer to 20%.

But,

(1) investment property - this is income that is not "earned" through working, but it's money we make because we're affluent enough to invest.

(2) child deductions - we pay ~5K a year in child care expenses...that helps reduce our taxable income

(3) we pay a load in property taxes....


As far as AMT....that should be going away or get updated soon, from what I've heard.

Do you use a CPA?

All this being said...I never had a problem with the idea that I would be paying the 28% we're supposed to pay. I thought that was fair...afterall, I'm a believer in social programs and "entitlements", especially universal healthcare.

But the reality of it is....a lot of Americans who complain about paying taxes don't pay as much as they should. And the more money you make the more likely it is for this to be true.

[kagmypts]

Originally Posted by back2dc

Actually fascism exists for the will of the state over the people, not the will of the people over the state which is what communism (on the other end of the political spectrum) stands for. That's why it's called the People's Republic of China -- the people ostensibly come first. But, and there is a big BUT (read below).

Before I get any further, let's make it clear: Socialism is NOT communism. I wish people would stop saying comrade and all that nonsense when we're talking about socialism not communism.

What confuses people is that the Soviets and the Chinese imposed authoritarian (not fascist) governments in place in order to force their ideologies onto the people. The Soviet Union is not what Karl Marx had in mind. Because pure communism doesn't work -- it stifles creativity in humans and creates great inefficiencies.

Western Europe are democracies with a socialist/capitalist mix. The people are not in an authoritarian state. They can freely elect their leaders. But they've elected to have the gov't step in and help with health care because society has become too complex and capitalism is too self-serving to provide for the health of the citizens. We can't open police departments and fire departments to private enterprise -- look at Blackwater in Iraq to see the results. These are state-funded entities. Likewise healthcare has become profit-oriented in the USA -- and people's lives are at stake. Capitalism has failed in that regard.

Gotta to get to work, or I'd write more.

I really wish I had time to respond to this, but I have three little ones climbing all over me :-) Hopefully I can give this an adequate response later today. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

[atlantagreg30127]

The "play nice" banner is now flashing in Red, folks.... some comments have crossed over into personal attacks and that won't be tolerated. Stay on topic and stop taking personal jabs.

[noah]

It is not completely fair to use 13% as a tax rate (and upset many) when a big reason for it is you deferred a large portion of your tax liability until you use your funds in retirement at which time you will pay tax on what you put in plus all the interest you have earned. One may ask is this federal income tax or are you also accounting for state income, sales tax, property tax etc.

[quote=RainyRainyDay;8368630]Go, pless. You inspired me to revisit my return ... we paid around 10% on income of $95K, mostly due to large retirement savings contributions. Nonetheless, this level of taxation is far from onerous.QUOTE]

[plessthanpointohfive]

[quote=noah;8369906]It is not completely fair to use 13% as a tax rate (and upset many) when a big reason for it is you deferred a large portion of your tax liability until you use your funds in retirement at which time you will pay tax on what you put in plus all the interest you have earned. One may ask is this federal income tax or are you also accounting for state income, sales tax, property tax etc.

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

Go, pless. You inspired me to revisit my return ... we paid around 10% on income of $95K, mostly due to large retirement savings contributions. Nonetheless, this level of taxation is far from onerous.QUOTE]

Not a large portion...I've only deferred about 10% of my current income....not a whole lot.