High high speed rail for Atlanta metro (Savannah, Marietta: lease, transfer)

[jetgraphics]

Thanks to high gasoline and diesel prices, it may be a perfect time to get behind electrified rail mass transit for Atlanta metro area as well as passenger service to Savannah, Athens, and beyond.

An interesting view from a European, with respect to America's rail system:
Passenger Rail for the Shasta Route: Table of Contents

His major points regarding America's rail future:
[] Regulatory abuse by Federal Railroad Administration (antiquated rules)
[] Private ownership and taxation of railroad tracks impede improved rights of way
[] Emphasis on slow, heavy cargo and low superelevation levels on curves exclude high speed rail

So when rail proponents fail to address these issues, you can be sure that whatever is proposed will NOT be a high speed rail system. In other words, don't assume you can use current tracks for high speed rail. They're inadequated, due to economic pressure and FRA rules.

Isn't bureaucracy wonderful?

Sigh.

If there WAS enough public outcry, perhaps we might insist on dedicated high speed passenger tracks, with ultralightweight rolling stock (FRA be d@mned), and we might see 155 MPH electrified trains.

(Atlanta to Savannah in under 2 hours. Atlanta to Chattanooga, under an hour. Atlanta to Birmingham, under 1 hour.)

And if we insist that high speed lines have at least four tracks, we can handle local and express service. (Kennesaw to Atlanta in 12 minutes)

And while we're at it, let's get behind a robust streetcar / tram mass transit system. Streetcars are far superior to diesel buses. No fumes. Quiet. Efficient. Durable. With a massive re-railing of Georgia, we could cut our fuel consumption by a significant amount.

America did it once - we could do it again.

GO RAIL!

[JPD]

Unfortunately, with jingoism running rampant in the states over the last several years, using Europe as an example of what we should be doing is probably the worst possible way to address our transportation issues (or any domestic issue for that matter).

[masonbarge]

IMO, intercity rail is not realistic in Georgia right now. There just isn't sufficient population density/traffic. Maybe to Athens in the next twenty years. Savannah would be a long way off, due to underutilization of I-16. (Realize, I'm basically on your side.)

I'd personally rather see the money spent on continued development of MARTA rail to the point that a significant number of people could live in the city without owning a car.

Regarding, say, the Peachtree tram, just take my personal situation. Understand, I love the concept. I live less than a mile
from Peachtree and I'd take public transit to the grocery store or work if I could. BUT -- I'm not going to take an unpleasant sweaty hike up a broken sidewalk next to a busy street (Collier Road), with the possibility of getting soaked if it rains, then pay to ride the tram, which isn't even going to have its own lane during rush hour.

I think we're going to have to suffer through an accretive system, with gradual implementation of public transportation with higher density housing, to get a system into place.

BTW, I went to Vienna for the first time recently. What an incredible public transportation system. Plus they have real bike lanes, and you can carry a bicycle onto the trains. But I don't see it happening here for a long time.

Maybe if they get the Beltline going, it could serve the same function as London's green belt. That would speed up public transit a lot.

[wxjay]

Originally Posted by masonbarge

BTW, I went to Vienna for the first time recently. What an incredible public transportation system. Plus they have real bike lanes, and you can carry a bicycle onto the trains. But I don't see it happening here for a long time.

I have seen people with bikes on MARTA.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by JPD

Unfortunately, with jingoism running rampant in the states over the last several years, using Europe as an example of what we should be doing is probably the worst possible way to address our transportation issues (or any domestic issue for that matter).

It's a shame that more Americans haven't experienced rail travel in Europe, as well as some of their intracity rail systems. I become envious every time I go there.

[atlantagreg30127]

This topic has actually been discussed several times in the past in some variation or another.

The short of it so it doesn't continue to repeat stuff, is that it will be a struggle to get "normal" commuter rail on a few lines here, and maybe a small extension of MARTA to the North and NE lines. Other than that, no, there will not be high speed rail here or in most likely most other places in the U.S. anytime soon. Maybe in your children's lifetime if they're young.

[netdragon]

Cobb County is very interested in the Atlanta-Chattanooga maglev (and should be since the lack of high-speed rail puts Cumberland and Town Center at a disadvantage), so it's possible we may end up with a direct Airport to Cobb County maglev (not commuter) before anything else is built. I think there are still some technical hurdles when it comes to making maglev affordable. Cobb County is doing a feasability study. More info about the study here: Cobb County Government

This is a picture of maglev in Cobb County. Not a maglev line being built, but a test maglev run by American Maglev Technology, a research company in Cobb County, and sadly the longest maglev line in the country is purely for research.
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/08/67/61/image_5261678.jpg (broken link)

One thing to keep in mind that the Atlanta-Chattanooga line would mostly be a federal pilot project and as such don't expect it to happen soon. Of course, in the meantime, there's still BRT along the top-end and commuter rail planned initially to Lovejoy and later to Marietta, Canton and Athens. Not high-speed, but it should still get people to work.

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

It's a shame that more Americans haven't experienced rail travel in Europe, as well as some of their intracity rail systems. I become envious every time I go there.

Some is good, like in Germany, however especially in Eastern Europe, it isn't as pleasant.
The trolleys ("trams") in German cities are incredible and I wish we had them here. The trains are really nice in Germany as well. However, the trains I took between Germany and Prague were extremely old and we could barely fit our baby's stroller on.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

It's a shame that more Americans haven't experienced rail travel in Europe, as well as some of their intracity rail systems. I become envious every time I go there.

I've ridden on trains all over Europe, including high speed trains like the TGV, and they're great. The closest we have right now is the Acela that serves the northeast corridor between Boston and DC.

One huge difference between the US and Europe is the vast distances here and huge difference in scale, as well as national ownership of railroads there, paid for by the taxpayers in most cases. People often mention Europe or Japan as an example of the ideal of rail travel (and they are close), but duplicating that type of service here in the US is next to impossible, just given the scale, not to mention that many of the European systems have been around for many years and were heavily invested in by governments after WWII. These are not systems that were built together or yesterday. Air travel is also not as extensive within European countries for the same reasons, while we have an extensive air transportation system.

The interesting thing to note is that roads in Eurpoe are also quite extensive (funded by huge fuel taxes in many cases) and the interstate equivalents like the autobahns are built better, maintained better, and used more safely at higher speeds.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by netdragon

This is a picture of maglev in Cobb County. Not a maglev line being built, but a test maglev run by American Maglev Technology, a research company in Cobb County, and sadly the longest maglev line in the country is purely for research.
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/08/67/61/image_5261678.jpg (broken link)

__________________________________________________ __________


This is their page on the test facility: AMT - Mass Transit For The Future - Test Track - Powder Springs, Ga , however it hasn't been updated in about two years from the looks of it.

I doubt the real seriousness of Cobb's interest, even if they are spending tax money on a study. They run CCT after all, and have shown very little interest in expanding that much at all in years. Even direct inquiries I've made to them about expansion have been met with emails saying, "It's not in our budget at this time", so I don't see how they plan on paying for a maglev system (though yes, it would be neat).

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by neil0311

One huge difference between the US and Europe is the vast distances here and huge difference in scale, as well as national ownership of railroads there, paid for by the taxpayers in most cases.

http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/educweb/...01/lecture.htm
The US railroad system reached peak mileage (system maturity) in about 1910 at 200000 miles of track.

It has declined to about 143,361 total miles operated for all freight railroads in North America.

Interesting note - Georgia owns some of the track that CSX runs on.
Railroads in Northwest Georgia: BNSF, CSX, Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific

Western & Atlantic Subdivision (owned by the state of Georgia, leased by CSX)

That may be an ideal situation - transfer the rail rights of way to the States, eliminate the property tax burden, and open the rails to any private company that will pay the fee.

Originally Posted by neil0311

People often mention Europe or Japan as an example of the ideal of rail travel (and they are close), but duplicating that type of service here in the US is next to impossible, just given the scale, not to mention that many of the European systems have been around for many years and were heavily invested in by governments after WWII. These are not systems that were built together or yesterday.

I don't agree. According to the site mentioned in the original post, many of the railroad innovations and advancements were first developed in the USA. If it wasn't for the subsidy to trucking and the penalty on privately owned rail, things might have been very different.

We are now witnessing a major shift in economic forces. Due to the rise in cost for petroleum, non - electrified transportation systems will take a big hit. That leaves us the golden opportunity to restore rail transit systems of all types.

Strategy Kinetics: April 2007

1917 U.S. trolley industry reaches a peak with 1,000 companies running 26,000 miles of track. Interurban trolleys (as opposed to railroads) are so extensive that a passenger could use them to get from Portland, Me. to Sheboygan, Wis.

Maglev Monorails of the World - Old Dominion University, Virginia

The [maglev] line was scheduled to open in 2002, however ride quality and a shortage of funds have prevented success.

Though Maglev seems futuristic, perhaps we should stick with proven rail technology.

REMEDIES:
[] Reverse Regulatory abuse by Federal Railroad Administration
[] Change Private ownership to public ownership of tracks, but let private companies use them for a fee.
[] Build new rail tracks for high speed rail, and segregate slow, heavy cargo.
[] Rebuild urban rail / streetcars / trolleys / inter urban networks