04-28-2014, 06:37 PM
2,406 posts, read
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Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MattCW
Sorry I don't have concrete numbers for you, and I'm not about to spend three years conducting a government level alternatives analysis just for you either. I'm going from intuition right now, just like people that said MARTA should go up 400 to Windward. No one who said that is wrong, but until MARTA came forward with the numbers, they didn't have them either. Yet by the demands you've expressed in that thread, we shouldn't have pushed for that project either because we had no numbers. No one does at the beginning, not even the government.
What is your best guess? What does your intuition tell you?
Quote:
Except you're trying to make it that. You're so insistent that "it won't work" so why don't you prove that? It's a two-way street. All I've got is other systems that work with similar populations and distances.
Similar populations?
What other city is even close to Raleigh? There is a big difference between 1.2 million (Raleigh) and 300,000 in Columbus metro.
[
Quote:
Why? Because it's not Atlanta? Then by that reasoning, Atlanta shouldn't ever have anything beyond what it has already. If another red state like NC can get regional rail and make it successful, why can't Atlanta? Ok, we don't have the cities lined up end to end along an accessible rail corridor like they do, but we do have a major anchor city and major regional cities to connect up. The four big ones, Chattanooga, Augusta, Macon, Columbus, are all within 3 hours by rail. Macon is within an hour and a half I believe. That makes things easier even than the Chicago network as our lines don't have to go as far to have a big impact.
It is all about the numbers. Even with close to ideal circumstances between Charlotte and Raleigh, they can only muster up 3 trains worth a day.
How many people do you think are really lining up for that Columbus - Atlanta rail route? How much money should be poured into making this route a reality so that we can get 1 or 2 trains going there a day (optimistic)?
04-28-2014, 07:26 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
7,360 posts, read
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Reputation: 5187
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gtcorndog
What is your best guess? What does your intuition tell you?
My intuition tells me that there would be enough traffic to justify rail service to the four major surrounding cities as well as Charlotte. Birmigham is harder since the rail time is quite a bit longer due to the mountains (Crescent takes 4 hours compared to 2 driving). I also think that HSR via Charlotte, Raleigh and Richmond to Washington DC would be worth it. There's a significant amount of traffic on the existing rail lines and improving the frequencies and travel times can only be for the better. Now I'm not proposing anything like Born2Roll's MARTA to Athens plan with trains every 15 minutes to 70 miles away. But 2-4 roundtrips per day on most corridors should draw sufficient ridership to make it worth it with much greater service on HSR to DC. Most of the routes wouldn't require more than token upgrades, with diesel-hauled coaches.
Quote:
Similar populations?
For the similar populations I was thinking more about the Chicago-centered routes. Carbondale is the terminus of one of the routes and has a population of 25,000 people. If Chicago can make a train work terminating 5 hours and 300 miles away in a city the size of Lawrenceville, I think Atlanta can make a train work terminating 2 hours away in a city of 300,000.
Quote:
It is all about the numbers. Even with close to ideal circumstances between Charlotte and Raleigh, they can only muster up 3 trains worth a day.
They can only muster that not due to lack of demand, but due to lack of funding, and lack of track capacity, both of which are being fixed as we speak. By 2017 I think they want to add a fourth roundtrip. They're also constrained on the physical size of the trains, the existing stations simply can't support any more cars on the Carolinian which provides the link to the Northeast and is badly in need of extension, but work on that end is also underway.
Quote:
How many people do you think are really lining up for that Columbus - Atlanta rail route? How much money should be poured into making this route a reality so that we can get 1 or 2 trains going there a day (optimistic)?
I'll admit, Columbus is a bit hard due to the wonky rail alignment headed that way, there's no direct route LaGrange to Columbus. But Chattanooga, Augusta and Macon could easily support 2-4 roundtrips per day. Macon could probably support full-blown commuter rail with 10+ roundtrips per day. Give people the option to sit instead of drive and they will. The Atlanta-Macon daily commuter trail is larger than most people think.
04-30-2014, 08:31 AM
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Reputation: 1781
^ So submit your proposal to Norfold-Southern. They'll probably file it in the shredder. For rail, it's freight.
04-30-2014, 12:32 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
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Reputation: 5187
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MathmanMathman
^ So submit your proposal to Norfold-Southern. They'll probably file it in the shredder. For rail, it's freight.
Does this post have a point other than to troll? You can't even spell the name of the railroad right.
04-30-2014, 02:32 PM
7,112 posts, read
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Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MattCW
Does this post have a point other than to troll? You can't even spell the name of the railroad right.
Established train companies are not doing passenger rail. Who would know better about the economic climate than them? Amtrak was created to keep passenger rail alive when private companies were quitting the business.
04-30-2014, 02:53 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
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Reputation: 5187
Yes, so why are you talking about the freight companies at all then?
04-30-2014, 04:30 PM
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,744 posts, read
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Reputation: 7183
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MattCW
Yes, so why are you talking about the freight companies at all then?
I could be wrong, but don't the freight companies own most of the track?
04-30-2014, 04:37 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
7,360 posts, read
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Reputation: 5187
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AnsleyPark
I could be wrong, but don't the freight companies own most of the track?
Yes, but other than being asked to allow passenger service and what upgrades are required, are otherwise uninvolved.
04-30-2014, 05:11 PM
7,112 posts, read
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Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MattCW
Yes, so why are you talking about the freight companies at all then?
I don't think the businesses are mutually exclusive. If lucrative Norfolk Southern would do it.
04-30-2014, 05:22 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
7,360 posts, read
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Reputation: 5187
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MathmanMathman
I don't think the businesses are mutually exclusive. If lucrative Norfolk Southern would do it.
Except it's not directly profitable. Passenger rail is just like any other public good, roads, parks, police, in that it enables economic activity thus generating profit for the area rather than for the system itself.
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Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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