Applications for Private schools - Fall 2013 (Atlanta, Buckhead: legal, authority, rated)

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by LovelySummer

CMMom,

I agree with you about not giving too much homework; however, I think that everyone is missing a nuance that is spelled out in the first paragraph of the first article that you linked.

Here is it:

There’s something perversely fascinating about educational policies that are clearly at odds with the available data. Huge schools are still being built even though we know that students tend to fare better in smaller places that lend themselves to the creation of democratic caring communities. Many children who are failed by the academic status quo are forced to repeat a grade even though research shows that this is just about the worst course of action for them. Homework continues to be assigned – in ever greater quantities – despite the absence of evidence that it’s necessary or even helpful in most cases.


I think that the author's argument is not just to not assign lots of homework BUT ALSO that the classrooms need to be smaller. When the classrooms are smaller, teachers are able to do more small group and one-on-one. Hence, homework is not as readily needed because there is more individualized attention.

The crux of the matter is that less homework really only works as well when you have a small class size. The author fails to say what class size she thinks to be small but the reality is that when a teacher has 25 or 30 kids, he/she is not able to work as directly with each of them and cannot tailor to them as well and the result is that you get homework as a failsafe in hopes that if the children practice on their own, maybe it will stick because goodness knows the teacher may not have as much of a sense of who is following ...until test time.

So I think that people who just latch on to the idea that homework, in all areas, is counterproductive, is not appreciating the full set of nuances in the different educational environments.

The other reality is that the no homework thing assumes that you have the optimal set of teachers. The reality is that, in the U.S., education degrees can be obtained with little to no math. Many did not do math well when they were in school and yet we are now asking them to teach it from a fundamental level of understanding. I think that is ironic and somewhat non-sensical. Yes, kids will get a deep sense of the subject matter in class if the teacher him/herself has a deep sense and can convey it. However, the model in the U.S. is to go early childhood education instead of going to mathematicians and asking them to teach math (as is done in Finland).

I'm rambling.

Unfortunately, smaller class rooms mandate more teachers and more facilities. This likely leads to increased schooling expenses for the jurisdictions. A sad state of affairs that our leaders don't appreciate, beyond lip service, that these are the best expenditures our governments could incur.

[CMMom]

Yes, agreed. I live in North Sandy Springs (Fulton), but my DeKalb/Dunwoody friends are regularly talking about 34 kids in a class in elementary school. As I've said elsewhere, I think that's asking to much of ANY teacher, no matter how qualified, knowledgeable, and caring he/she may be.

A major part of why we are paying the big bucks is to keep that control on class size. We can feel assured that the class will rarely exceed 20 (we had 21 one year; an anomaly).

[LovelySummer]

CMMom,

This is more of what it seems I remember other high school kids doing - taking one AP class Junior year and one to two senior year. That seems much more manageable than what I'm hearing about the workload nowadays when talking to different schools. I think the competition is much more stiff nowadays amongst students.

I was even floored to hear all that is required just to get into a good college nowadays. Back in my day, you could get into a very good college even if you didn't take AP courses and you did well in your regular level courses and simply excelled on the SAT/ACT.

It seems times have changed.

Originally Posted by CMMom

I can't answer that with first-hand knowledge, as my kids' peer group is pretty much all still elementary school age.

I attended an "elite" private here in town, like some other posters, and can tell you that I certainly remember studying and taking school seriously, but I never experienced "burnout." But in the late 80's, schools (even Westminster and the like) didn't offer 30+ AP courses. I took 3 (one junior year and two senior year) and managed just fine. I also participated in a number of extracurriculars, although probably not as many as some kids do these days.

My days of serious academic anxiety didn't start until junior/senior year of college. But I recognize that others' experiences may vary.

[LovelySummer]

Hello AP,

I totally agree. I guess the link between the true investment in education now and the prosperity of the U.S. in the future is getting lost somewhere. This is the reason that I thought that charter schools might help - perhaps provide a bit of competition to spur a movement towards steps leading to real changes in public education sector. Maybe this is just wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Unfortunately, smaller class rooms mandate more teachers and more facilities. This likely leads to increased schooling expenses for the jurisdictions. A sad state of affairs that our leaders don't appreciate, beyond lip service, that these are the best expenditures our governments could incur.

[LovelySummer]

CMMom,

34 kids in an elementary school class? Wow, that is even more than I'd imagined. How sad for the children who have to be in those classes who may need a bit more assistance and individualized attention. It really angers me that we have enough money for two new stadiums when the current stadiums are working just fine and elementary children are 34 to a class in Dekalb county. Our priorities .... Of course, everyone making the decision about the stadiums and the public schools has their kids in private school so I guess they need not worry....

Smaller class size is really one of the biggest draws for us for private education. It is a shame when you have to pay 20K on top of taxes to have the environment that you should get just with your tax money.

Originally Posted by CMMom

Yes, agreed. I live in North Sandy Springs (Fulton), but my DeKalb/Dunwoody friends are regularly talking about 34 kids in a class in elementary school. As I've said elsewhere, I think that's asking to much of ANY teacher, no matter how qualified, knowledgeable, and caring he/she may be.

A major part of why we are paying the big bucks is to keep that control on class size. We can feel assured that the class will rarely exceed 20 (we had 21 one year; an anomaly).

[AtlJan]

YES! When classes get so big, the work is not tailored to the students' needs. It just can't be. . .so they are throwing everything at the wall (homework) to see what sticks.

As for "homework" at the big three buckhead privates--I went to one and have many friends' and family's kids at all 3--the top 20% of kids are working their butts off to be in the top tier at these schools. They are achievers and would be working pretty hard wherever, but to be in the top at these schools, you are going to be hustling. It isn't that there is just too much "homework"--it is that you are in a very competitive environment. . . think law school.

I remember my AP European teacher telling us we couldn't possibly read everything she was assigning--but to be familiar with all the documents so we could identify a passage from each of them for the exam. . .Of course, some people read none of it, and some tried to read it all. It wasn't homework--it was studying, does that make sense?

I was in the top 5 in my class and I did spend one night and one day a weekend studying, but there weren't too many of us that did that.

From what I can gather from current kids, it's about the same as it was then. Two out of three of the kids I know who have gotten into Ivies were also athletes (crew and dressage).

The great joys about going to the school I went to were the amazing teachers and the small class sizes. . .I want that for my kids--teachers that are as good as your best college professors, and classes with 8-20 people in them.

[GeorgiaLakeSearch]

Originally Posted by AtlJan

Don't most people who live in Manhattan or in DC proper use private for high school? Atlanta is the same. And "an intown area or Buckhead"...just to clarify, Buckhead is an intown area. . .and Buckhead has a similar intown school set up as DC--some good public elementary schools, a lot of great private schools, and intown public high schools with a socioeconomic mix of kids representative of the city as a whole. It isn't fair to compare Buckhead to suburban NY or NJ. It isn't a suburb.

I am a native Atlantan and whereas I did go to private, I know plenty of people who went to what is now North Atlanta or Grady (when neither was as good as it is now, BTW) and they are now seasoned professionals with advanced degrees. So when you say "you pretty much have to pay for private"--I'm kind of miffed, but I guess you are used to suburban high schools where the average test scores are extremely high and you don't want an urban school--and you don't want to home school. But, rest assured, NAHS and Grady graduate their share of top students each year. And so do the top tier privates, and the second tier, and the third tier privates, and the other intown publics, too.

So, moving back to the NE is definitely something to consider if you don't like our suburbs but you want a suburban public high school. Let us know what you decide. There are plenty of folks here ready to throw you a good-bye party! :-)

I agree. If things aren't done how they are done in the NY metro people on here complain. But this is not the NY metro. Atlanta is developed differently.

I grew up on the UES of Manhattan and nobody used the public schools. I have no clue what public school I would have attended if I did.

[GeorgiaLakeSearch]

Originally Posted by snsh5713

GeorgiaLake Search...

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of recommendations and connections did you have. Are you referring to letters of recommendation

Yes I had letters of recommendation. My sister graduated from the school, and my parents are involved with the school. At a school my son was accepted, I personally know somebody on the board.

[AtlJan]

Originally Posted by LovelySummer

CMMom,

This is more of what it seems I remember other high school kids doing - taking one AP class Junior year and one to two senior year. That seems much more manageable than what I'm hearing about the workload nowadays when talking to different schools. I think the competition is much more stiff nowadays amongst students.

I was even floored to hear all that is required just to get into a good college nowadays. Back in my day, you could get into a very good college even if you didn't take AP courses and you did well in your regular level courses and simply excelled on the SAT/ACT.

It seems times have changed.

I graduated from one of the Buckhead schools and took 7 or 8 AP classes--was technically a sophomore when I started college b/c I had 30+ hours of credit. This was not uncommon at all at my particular school--I would say it is the same there as it is now. About a third of the kids are taking this many APs. I graduated 20 years ago.

[chabang]

I also wonder how "pedigreed" the parents are affect the kid's chances. I have a graduate degree and am a well-respected lawyer but also a single mom that adopted my daughter so I do not put any information on the "father" section of the application and wonder how much this hurts our application. On the Westminster application, there was not even an option for a parent like me to check! You have to be either married, widowed, separated, or divorced. Apparently Westminster does not believe that single (never married) people are parents too.