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Im all for expansion of Marta, but I think they should go for making every station on TOD on the line. Start trying to get more development on top and around the existing stations. Again Im not against growth, just better growth.
Building more development on top of and around existing stations is an excellent idea because that type of large-scale high-density Transit-Oriented Development along lines can help to generate the amount of revenue that is needed to sustain transit service at the high levels that it is wanted and needed.
A large major urban transit agency like MARTA absolutely needs to have a very strong presence in the real estate development business....That's because the real estate development business (along with large-scale P3's (Public-Private Partnerships)) can be an extremely lucrative business that can generate truckloads (or trainloads) of operating revenue for otherwise revenue-starved transit agencies like MARTA.
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Originally Posted by cqholt
MARTA sends out an email and posts to social media about upcoming single tracking usually on Thursdays. Plenty of time for riders to adjust their schedules and plan around it. Majority of the complaining comes from infrequent riders (Alpharetta Unicorns) that do not have the app, subscribed to the emails, or follow them on social media.
It's good that MARTA sends out emails and posts to social media on the Thursday before weekend single-tracking.
But a better thing to do for a large major urban transit agency like MARTA would probably be to notify the public with emails, social media postings, conspicuously-posted notices on each page of MARTA's website, large signs at transit stations and major bus stops, news reports on television and radio media and notices in local newspaper media (both frequent and infrequent riders) several days in advance (if not weeks in advance, if possible) of major maintenance events that will substantially affect HRT service.
Another good thing that a large major transit agency like MARTA could do (and most likely should do) if the agency has to perform maintenance work on HRT line tracks that necessitate single-tracking during daylight hours (like on busy weekend days like Saturday and even on Sundays) could be to just shutdown the section of HRT line being maintained and operate "bus trains" or "bus bridges" along the sections of the system where the maintenance work will be taking place instead of delaying HRT service that already operates with lower frequencies on weekends with single-tracking.
Large major transit agencies like MARTA should make notifications of upcoming service-disrupting maintenance work highly-conspicuous so that it will be extremely difficult for the public to miss those important notifications.
Large major transit agencies like MARTA also need to appear as if they are making every effort to accommodate the transit-riding public during times when major transit lines may be shutdown during times of maintenance work and emergencies.
If people still complain after the much more conspicuous and very high-profile notification and service accommodations process, then so be it....But it will be much more difficult for them to say that there was little if any notice that service would be disrupted in advance of major transit service-disrupting maintenance work....And it will also be much more difficult for them to say that the agency is not making every effort it can to accommodate the public when the agency is providing high-frequency bus service in place of rail service.
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Originally Posted by cqholt
If HJIA/City of Atlanta want to help fund the late night service, because they would directly benefit from it.
That's a good idea. Local governments as well as private entities (particularly large private entities) should ideally be very strong and solid financial partners with large major transit agencies like MARTA instead of just being partially committed public relations partners.
But a better thing to do for a large major urban transit agency like MARTA would probably be to notify the public with emails, social media postings, conspicuously-posted notices on each page of MARTA's website, large signs at transit stations and major bus stops, news reports on television and radio media and notices in local newspaper media (both frequent and infrequent riders) several days in advance (if not weeks in advance, if possible) of major maintenance events that will substantially affect HRT service.
They do post signs at the stations where single tracking is in effect. They do post service alerts on their website.
Im all for expansion of Marta, but I think they should go for making every station on TOD on the line. Start trying to get more development on top and around the existing stations. Again Im not against growth, just better growth.
Yup they should, and by all appearances, they are with current station projects. There is still the issue of initial funding though, and I agree with bu2 that the increase should be sold as temporary to pay for the expansion, while the TODs are built.
The TODs can then cover operations costs and, possibly, further expansion. The big deal here is that, with the increase in sales tax revenue, MARTA can upgrade its bonds (~$4B to sell) for Federal Matching.
Which three overlapping lines are you discussing? At least in my maps, there are the Red and Gold HRT lines, the Purple LRT line, and the Peach Commuter rail line. None of these interfere with each other. The Cobb line runs from Arts Center as you mentioned, as was the MARTA plan, and as is the Cobb BRT/LRT plans.
The Red, Gold, and Cobb lines. It's the same as the Red and Gold lines now. But with a Cobb line, service from Arts Center to Airport could have trains from any of the three lines (Red, Gold, or Cobb). They aren't interfering so much as joining. I was noting that in practice, shared lines can create congestion - even with two lines (or one for that matter) - and having three train lines would compound the issue.
What would probably happen in practice is the Red Line would end at Lindbergh with 4-car sets. The Gold trains would be extended to 8 car sets during rush hour. Cobb trains would be 4 or 6 cars depending on realized demand. But this is all assuming an HRT expansion into Cobb which is a long time away / never.
The Red, Gold, and Cobb lines. It's the same as the Red and Gold lines now. But with a Cobb line, service from Arts Center to Airport could have trains from any of the three lines (Red, Gold, or Cobb). They aren't interfering so much as joining. I was noting that in practice, shared lines can create congestion - even with two lines (or one for that matter) - and having three train lines would compound the issue.
What would probably happen in practice is the Red Line would end at Lindbergh with 4-car sets. The Gold trains would be extended to 8 car sets during rush hour. Cobb trains would be 4 or 6 cars depending on realized demand. But this is all assuming an HRT expansion into Cobb which is a long time away / never.
Having as many as 3 different HRT lines operating along the same set of HRT tracks between the Arts Center Station and the Airport should not be a problem for MARTA.
That's because MARTA is capable of operating trains with headways as low as 2 minutes between trains.
Also, the HRT system in Washington DC (the DC Metro) operates 3 HRT lines along the same set of HRT tracks for several miles while HRT systems in Northern California (BART) and Chicago (CTA) operate as many 4 HRT lines along the same set of tracks in the geographic center of their respective networks while the HRT system in New York (the NYC Subway) operates 4 HRT lines along the same set of tracks in multiple places throughout its network.
Throughout the aforementioned HRT systems in DC, Northern California, Chicago and NYC, the transit stations served by 3 and 4 HRT lines experience headways as low as only 1 minute between directional trains during peak hours.
In the unlikely event that HRT service was ever to be implemented between Cobb County and the Atlanta Airport, the current MARTA Red Line train would be more than capable of continuing to operate between Lindbergh and the Atlanta Airport along with the current Gold Line and a future ATL Airport-Cobb HRT line.
There would be no need to discontinue MARTA Red Line service south of Lindbergh so that a future ATL Airport-Cobb HRT line could be accommodated.
Having as many as 3 different HRT lines operating along the same set of HRT tracks between the Arts Center Station and the Airport should not be a problem for MARTA.
That's because MARTA is capable of operating trains with headways as low as 2 minutes between trains.
Until MARTA upgrades its signal system, even 5 mintues is frequently a struggle on the Red/Gold lines due to congestion.
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Also, the HRT system in Washington DC (the DC Metro) operates 3 HRT lines along the same set of HRT tracks for several miles
As I have stated many times before, WMATA uses a more advanced signaling system to slow down trains a little bit to keep them from bunching which causes smoother operation and allows for tighter headways. MARTA still uses basic block-signaling with cab signals. Their headways along the outer portions along those lines are also not the greatest with effectively 12 minute headways outside the core.
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while HRT systems in Northern California (BART)
BART has even worse headways of only 15 minutes on most lines with one line having ~7.5 minute headways. They also have a far more advanced signaling and control system than MARTA to the point where doors are always placed to within a few inches on the platforms.
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and Chicago (CTA) operate as many 4 HRT lines along the same set of tracks in the geographic center of their respective networks
The CTA loop is the only place they operate four lines on two tracks, but since the lines operate unidirectionally, it's effectively two lines per track which is the same as MARTA and they have comparable or worse headways.
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while the HRT system in New York (the NYC Subway) operates 4 HRT lines along the same set of tracks in multiple places throughout its network.
Only because in those places there are four tracks rather than MARTA's two.
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Throughout the aforementioned HRT systems in DC, Northern California, Chicago and NYC, the transit stations served by 3 and 4 HRT lines experience headways as low as only 1 minute between directional trains during peak hours.
Wrong, none of the timetables for those systems list scheduled "headways" of 1 minute, and all but maybe BART's signaling system and NYC's new CBTC-signaling on the L line couldn't handle it anyways.
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In the unlikely event that HRT service was ever to be implemented between Cobb County and the Atlanta Airport, the current MARTA Red Line train would be more than capable of continuing to operate between Lindbergh and the Atlanta Airport along with the current Gold Line and a future ATL Airport-Cobb HRT line.
There would be no need to discontinue MARTA Red Line service south of Lindbergh so that a future ATL Airport-Cobb HRT line could be accommodated.
On 3:20 headways, MARTA as the system exists right now might work if nothing goes wrong and there are no delays, but until the signaling system is upgraded, it's unlikely MARTA could maintain 10 minute headways on three shared lines. One option might be to short-turn some trains like the Gold Line at the Garnett Pocket Track to reduce the chance of delays, but even then, there is still a lot of places for something to go wrong and throw the whole schedule down the toilet.
Having as many as 3 different HRT lines operating along the same set of HRT tracks between the Arts Center Station and the Airport should not be a problem for MARTA.
That's because MARTA is capable of operating trains with headways as low as 2 minutes between trains.
Also, the HRT system in Washington DC (the DC Metro) operates 3 HRT lines along the same set of HRT tracks for several miles while HRT systems in Northern California (BART) and Chicago (CTA) operate as many 4 HRT lines along the same set of tracks in the geographic center of their respective networks while the HRT system in New York (the NYC Subway) operates 4 HRT lines along the same set of tracks in multiple places throughout its network.
Throughout the aforementioned HRT systems in DC, Northern California, Chicago and NYC, the transit stations served by 3 and 4 HRT lines experience headways as low as only 1 minute between directional trains during peak hours.
In the unlikely event that HRT service was ever to be implemented between Cobb County and the Atlanta Airport, the current MARTA Red Line train would be more than capable of continuing to operate between Lindbergh and the Atlanta Airport along with the current Gold Line and a future ATL Airport-Cobb HRT line.
There would be no need to discontinue MARTA Red Line service south of Lindbergh so that a future ATL Airport-Cobb HRT line could be accommodated.
Dallas operates 4 lines on their downtown tracks. The headways appear to be about 15 minutes, so you get about 16 trains an hour with normally 3-4 minutes between trains.
Improving signaling has got to be a lot cheaper than adding new track.
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