Design Your Own MARTA Expansion (Atlanta, Jackson: shuttles, expensive, restrictions)

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i'm hoping that we at least get 24 hour service on friday and saturday in the next couple of years... there are so many drunk drivers at that time that having MARTA close at 1 AM seems terribly irresponsible.

At the very least, change the 1 AM - 5 AM closing times to 3 AM - 7 AM on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by CJ314

Here's a thought about adding a Cobb County line (like to KSU). The logical assumption would be to (finally) use the provisionary tunnels north of Arts Center Station.

HOWEVER

At Lindbergh Center station, we already have two lines funneling into one. With three lines, keeping service at every five minutes would result in 15-minute headways on individual lines (ugh). Increasing frequency would decrease reliability since there'd be less fudge room for dwell times. Inevitably, we'd end up with one train loaded to crush capacity (with people still trying to board... unsuccessfully) and four trains blocked up behind it.

My proposal would be to make Lindbergh Center a two-layer station (like Five Points, but parallel instead of perpendicular). The Red Line (or the Gold, I suppose) could be routed OVER the existing lines to a new upper platform. With five minute lead time (or whatever number) on all lines, service would be more predictable. More importantly, issues on one line wouldn't impact the other. Trains could be every 5 minutes on ALL lines during rush hour. With an expanded Red Line, the 5-minute service would likely be needed due to increased ridership.

... assuming MARTA ever expands into Cobb

Which three overlapping lines are you discussing? At least in my maps, there are the Red and Gold HRT lines, the Purple LRT line, and the Peach Commuter rail line. None of these interfere with each other. The Cobb line runs from Arts Center as you mentioned, as was the MARTA plan, and as is the Cobb BRT/LRT plans.

[philly76miami96]

To fourthwarden:

How did you make this MARTA map? I'm just wondering, because I made my Atlanta map on Paint and it looks unprofessional.

[afdinatl]

Originally Posted by CJ314

Here's a thought about adding a Cobb County line (like to KSU). The logical assumption would be to (finally) use the provisionary tunnels north of Arts Center Station.

HOWEVER

At Lindbergh Center station, we already have two lines funneling into one. With three lines, keeping service at every five minutes would result in 15-minute headways on individual lines (ugh). Increasing frequency would decrease reliability since there'd be less fudge room for dwell times. Inevitably, we'd end up with one train loaded to crush capacity (with people still trying to board... unsuccessfully) and four trains blocked up behind it.

My proposal would be to make Lindbergh Center a two-layer station (like Five Points, but parallel instead of perpendicular). The Red Line (or the Gold, I suppose) could be routed OVER the existing lines to a new upper platform. With five minute lead time (or whatever number) on all lines, service would be more predictable. More importantly, issues on one line wouldn't impact the other. Trains could be every 5 minutes on ALL lines during rush hour. With an expanded Red Line, the 5-minute service would likely be needed due to increased ridership.

... assuming MARTA ever expands into Cobb

I would add a new line from Lindbergh to the airport if Cobb and Gwinnett ever joined Marta to help with the overcrowding.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by CJ314

Here's a thought about adding a Cobb County line (like to KSU). The logical assumption would be to (finally) use the provisionary tunnels north of Arts Center Station.

HOWEVER

At Lindbergh Center station, we already have two lines funneling into one. With three lines, keeping service at every five minutes would result in 15-minute headways on individual lines (ugh). Increasing frequency would decrease reliability since there'd be less fudge room for dwell times. Inevitably, we'd end up with one train loaded to crush capacity (with people still trying to board... unsuccessfully) and four trains blocked up behind it.

My proposal would be to make Lindbergh Center a two-layer station (like Five Points, but parallel instead of perpendicular). The Red Line (or the Gold, I suppose) could be routed OVER the existing lines to a new upper platform. With five minute lead time (or whatever number) on all lines, service would be more predictable. More importantly, issues on one line wouldn't impact the other. Trains could be every 5 minutes on ALL lines during rush hour. With an expanded Red Line, the 5-minute service would likely be needed due to increased ridership.

... assuming MARTA ever expands into Cobb

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Which three overlapping lines are you discussing? At least in my maps, there are the Red and Gold HRT lines, the Purple LRT line, and the Peach Commuter rail line. None of these interfere with each other. The Cobb line runs from Arts Center as you mentioned, as was the MARTA plan, and as is the Cobb BRT/LRT plans.

What CJ314 appears to be talking about is if a future Cobb County HRT line (represented by the gray-colored line on fourthwarden's excellent conceptual map) were to be extended south past Arts Center Station so that it would be operating along the same set of tracks as the existing Red and Gold HRT lines between the Arts Center and Airport stations.

Having 3 different HRT lines operate on the same set of tracks between Arts Center and the Airport should not and most likely would not be a problem if a future Cobb County HRT line were to extended south from Arts Center to the Airport (...which is most likely where the Southern Terminus of a future north-south Atlanta-Cobb County HRT line should be located out of a logistical and economic need for an increasingly urban Cobb County and an increasingly heavily-populated OTP Northwest Metro Atlanta).

That's because MARTA's HRT system is capable of operating with headways as low as 2 minutes if necessary....Which means that the headways of each of the 3 HRT lines in question would not need to be lengthened if they were to operate along the same section of track between Arts Center and the Airport in the future.

There are also examples of other major HRT systems in other major American cities where multiple HRT lines operate along the same set of tracks at the geographical centers of those systems.

The D.C. Metro (which Atlanta's MARTA HRT system is partly patterned after) has a section of HRT track where 3 different HRT lines operate along the same set of tracks at very high frequencies and with very low headways through Downtown Washington D.C.

Both the New York City Subway and Northern California's BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit...another system which Atlanta's MARTA HRT system is also partly patterned after) each have extended stretches of track where 4 different HRT lines operate along the same set of tracks with very high frequencies and with very low headways through the central parts of their respective systems.

In Chicago, 5 different HRT lines operate along the same set of elevated tracks along the north and east sections of the famed Chicago Loop while 4 different HRT lines operate along the same set of elevated tracks along the west and south sections of the Chicago Loop.

What is noteworthy about the Chicago Loop is that 2 east-west elevated HRT tracks and 2 north-south elevated tracks intersect on the same grade in the northwest corner of the Loop....This same-grade/at-grade intersection of elevated tracks is something that necessitates much very-frequent coordination of HRT trains by the Chicago Transit Authority, especially considering that the same-grade/at-grade intersection of elevated tracks is located at a point at which 5 different HRT lines pass through.

With MARTA's HRT system being capable of operating with headways as low as 2 minutes between trains along the same set of tracks and with other major HRT systems having sections of track where up to 5 different HRT lines operate along the same set of tracks at very high frequencies and with very low headways, having a section of track where only 3 HRT lines operate at high frequencies with low headways along the same section of track should not and most likely will not be a problem for Atlanta's MARTA HRT system.

Because MARTA's HRT system is capable of operating with headways as low as 2 minutes between trains (and because a future Cobb County HRT line would not operate through Lindbergh Center Station), Lindbergh Center Station would not need to be reconstructed into a "two-layer" station with a platform on two different levels for the Red and Gold lines.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i'm hoping that we at least get 24 hour service on friday and saturday in the next couple of years... there are so many drunk drivers at that time that having MARTA close at 1 AM seems terribly irresponsible.

Drunk driving is irresponsible and selfish, it should not be up to the local transit agency to attempt to curtail that behavior. It should be law enforcement and stricter punishment for 1st time violators.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

At the very least, change the 1 AM - 5 AM closing times to 3 AM - 7 AM on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

MARTA should be focusing on workers, not drunks.

A lot of people work shift work on Saturdays and Sundays. You're proposing cutting them off from MARTA to serve a few drunk people who could call a cab.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by CJ314

Here's a thought about adding a Cobb County line (like to KSU). The logical assumption would be to (finally) use the provisionary tunnels north of Arts Center Station.

HOWEVER

At Lindbergh Center station, we already have two lines funneling into one. With three lines, keeping service at every five minutes would result in 15-minute headways on individual lines (ugh). Increasing frequency would decrease reliability since there'd be less fudge room for dwell times. Inevitably, we'd end up with one train loaded to crush capacity (with people still trying to board... unsuccessfully) and four trains blocked up behind it.

My proposal would be to make Lindbergh Center a two-layer station (like Five Points, but parallel instead of perpendicular). The Red Line (or the Gold, I suppose) could be routed OVER the existing lines to a new upper platform. With five minute lead time (or whatever number) on all lines, service would be more predictable. More importantly, issues on one line wouldn't impact the other. Trains could be every 5 minutes on ALL lines during rush hour. With an expanded Red Line, the 5-minute service would likely be needed due to increased ridership.

... assuming MARTA ever expands into Cobb

Someone said MARTA was having technical trouble with two lines on the same track. However, other systems (NYC) can do it. MARTA just needs to figure out how to operate better. There can be shorter headways than that. Just because you have 3 lines doesn't mean you have to have 15 minute headways.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by bu2

MARTA should be focusing on workers, not drunks.

A lot of people work shift work on Saturdays and Sundays. You're proposing cutting them off from MARTA to serve a few drunk people who could call a cab.

Heh, perhaps. It's just a numbers game, really--an issue of getting a few extra drunk partiers home, occasionally preventing a DUI, than getting a few shift workers to work. I can't say where I stand on that, because I don't have numbers either way.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Heh, perhaps. It's just a numbers game, really--an issue of getting a few extra drunk partiers home, occasionally preventing a DUI, than getting a few shift workers to work. I can't say where I stand on that, because I don't have numbers either way.

Workers trying to get to low paying jobs, because most often they have no other option. Drunks have options, like staying at home and drinking.