US Announces High Speed Rail for 23 States - - Atlanta 3-Way Hub to AL/SC/NC/FL (Savannah: rental car, rental)

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Hows your MARTA funding going? Its pretty predictable for the South , it will be a long time before you have any true HSR lines down there...

Instead of ridiculing the South - and Atlanta in particular, you should be thanking us.

The new Siemens locomotives just purchased for the NE Corridor today will have their motors and propulsion containers manufactured in Metro Atlanta.

Siemens gets big Amtrak locomotive contract - Jacksonville Transportation | Examiner.com

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by johnatl

Instead of ridiculing the South - and Atlanta in particular, you should be thanking us.

The new Siemens locomotives just purchased for the NE Corridor today will have their motors and propulsion containers manufactured in Metro Atlanta.

Siemens gets big Amtrak locomotive contract - Jacksonville Transportation | Examiner.com

Does Florida count as the South? NC? VA? I think those will happen theres more will behind those , but not yours and we all no whats going to happen in FL. They'll probably lead the Nation in the first THSR line , then Cali , but the Northeast will always have the best overall network might not be as fast but still very large.

[SEAandATL]

I think there should be a direct line between Atlanta and Savannah. That makes more sense. According the more recent map, the planned line connects to the coastal line somewhere between Savannah and Jacksonville (around Brunswick?).

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Does Florida count as the South? NC? VA? I think those will happen theres more will behind those , but not yours and we all no whats going to happen in FL. They'll probably lead the Nation in the first THSR line , then Cali , but the Northeast will always have the best overall network might not be as fast but still very large.

What?

Please explain what you just attempted to say.

And just exactly what does "we all no whats going to happen in FL" mean?

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by johnatl

What?

Please explain what you just attempted to say.

And just exactly what does "we all no whats going to happen in FL" mean?

There getting the First True High Speed Rail line. Although both cities should have had a MARTA type system already in the works to connect up to.....

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

There getting the First True High Speed Rail line. Although both cities should have had a MARTA type system already in the works to connect up to.....

And?

Orlando IS finally getting a pretty expansive commuter rail line very soon. The State, the metro Counties of Central Florida & CSX are already under serious planning AND nearing construction on this........

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by johnatl

And?

Orlando IS finally getting a pretty expansive commuter rail line very soon. The State, the metro Counties of Central Florida & CSX are already under serious planning AND nearing construction on this........

Yea but they should have a system already , HSR is one of the last things you build. Atlanta would be fine if they built a line to there because it has a base system to connect into , it may not be the best one but it does it job. What happens if 2 or 3 of the things don't get built in time in Florida? Ridership will then be low , resulting in an embarrassment of a starter line for the nation , do you see were i'm coming form?

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Yea but they should have a system already , HSR is one of the last things you build. Atlanta would be fine if they built a line to there because it has a base system to connect into , it may not be the best one but it does it job. What happens if 2 or 3 of the things don't get built in time in Florida? Ridership will then be low , resulting in an embarrassment of a starter line for the nation , do you see were i'm coming form?

No, I don't see where you are coming from.

The Orlando/Tampa corridor along I-4 is one of the most congested and fastest developing in the country. Florida voted on a Constitutional Amendment authorizing HSR years ago, only to be negated and cancelled by former Gov. Jeb Bush. Now it is actually happening, and I predict it will be fully embraced and heavily utilized.

Obama went there to proclaim the launch of U.S. HSR for a reason.

The same success will be realized here when Atlanta has its rightful place as the hub of the SE network that is certain to be built - just as Atlanta was the hub of the passenger rail network of the SE in the past, with over 300 daily trains. This is the undisputed hub of its entire region. History has a funny way of repeating itself when there is a reason for it to do so.....

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

I think there should be a direct line between Atlanta and Savannah. That makes more sense. According the more recent map, the planned line connects to the coastal line somewhere between Savannah and Jacksonville (around Brunswick?).

I have thought about the same thing, but... Look at a freight rail map of Georgia and it makes -some- sense. (http://www.dot.state.ga.us/traveling...ghtRailMap.pdf) I would also direct to the state rail plan for an interesting read (http://www.dot.state.ga.us/traveling...ilPlan2009.pdf).

They are mainly looking at the ability and cost of expanding already created freight rail corridors. This lowers the cost of land acquisition and bridging over local roads, which already were constructed to avoid rail road crossings.

The route from Macon to Jesup is much more straight/direct than the routes to Savannah, which are older and more curvy. There is also less freight on that rail line, which may or may not allow use of the freight rail in limited amounts to handle two-way HSR on a single HSR track, which lowers construction costs. The line appears to be a under-used, low-density mainline between Macon and the port in Brunswick. There are two routes to Savannah. One has a really curvy alignment and the other is a short line that is designed to connect agricultural and industrial areas to mainlines and would probably have lots of small, light pick-up/drop-off traffic. Also, the Macon-Jesup route would lower the amount of time for a High-speed train to get to Jacksonville, FL and on to the rest of Florida. I would rather go to Savannah, but Jacksonville is a much larger market than Savannah.

I am sure when they put money into doing the preliminary study of that corridor they will consider alternative alignments and it will note the reasons for using that route better.

Also, in the state Rail plan... the state identifies a few corridors for "high-speed" intercity rail within GA. One of the corridors is Macon to Savannah. Of course by high speed they probably mean something more like 70-90 mph.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by johnatl

No, I don't see where you are coming from.

The Orlando/Tampa corridor along I-4 is one of the most congested and fastest developing in the country. Florida voted on a Constitutional Amendment authorizing HSR years ago, only to be negated and cancelled by former Gov. Jeb Bush. Now it is actually happening, and I predict it will be fully embraced and heavily utilized.

Obama went there to proclaim the launch of U.S. HSR for a reason.

The same success will be realized here when Atlanta has its rightful place as the hub of the SE network that is certain to be built - just as Atlanta was the hub of the passenger rail network of the SE in the past, with over 300 daily trains. This is the undisputed hub of its entire region. History has a funny way of repeating itself when there is a reason for it to do so.....

To John and Nexis....

I understand what you are BOTH saying. You both are making logical points.

I think Florida is a better place to start... but hear me out first!

The argument for Atlanta is that it is a natural rail hub and center point of the system. We also already have a really good urban metro system to connect business centers to the proposed HSR station. Central Florida has a long way to go on efficient public transit. HSR business travelers, unlike flying commuters, want to stop right in the center of town and need a good transit system to get to their final destination. Georgia, like Florida, made expansive plans for intercity rail, commuter rail, and transit improvements in the mid-90s. In fact, probably more so than central Florida. Like Florida, the plans didn't materialize and no one wanted to fund anything.

However, there is a major weakness for Atlanta. Atlanta is one of the 3 largest inland hubs for freight rail travel. We have one of the most congested freight rail corridors and freight rail intersections in the country that need to be rebuilt to handle freight capacity before building HSR in place. HSR in Atlanta will likely travel along a shared use rail corridor through the urban center of Atlanta that is heavily congested. This has to be overhauled first. It is one of the barriers to commuter rail in Atlanta as well. (The biggest congestion point is Howell Mill Junction for anyone that wants to look into it further)

The argument for Florida....

They are two major cities that are close together that have interlinked economies. There is already lots of travel demand between the two cities. The corridor is flat, straight, short, and in many places already has a right-of-way for building HSR.

With limited starting funds, it is a wonderful place for the country to build a -starter project- for the whole country. It takes less investment to get something up and running. There are less obstacles to run into. People are likely to use it. It is a good place to start something, learn potential problems, and showcase the idea of how HSR works. (Keep in mind most American haven't traveled overseas. If they see something work well they might be more receptive to building more)

That is why I would start with Florida.

However, don't get too cocky about Central Florida. Atlanta is a much larger economy with many more business travelers. It is also faster growing than Central Florida. It is just further away from neighboring major cities and has more barriers to building HSR from scratch and more issues to work through. If the whole system is ever built out. Atlanta will have many more HSR travelers and will be an important hub city. Of course, at this point that is a big -if-.