Thoughts/Questions on Albuquerque after recent visit. (Hope: transplants, how much)

[ManGoneADreamin]

I thought Albuquerque was a pretty neat place, with good scenery. The people I conversed with were polite, etc. But I still didn't get a good enough feel for the city I believe. I had one person tell me that "This (Albuquerque) is the worst place ever"... I didn't bother to ask why but am curious to any of your reasons why this could be? I also would like an explanation to why New Mexico is called the "land of entrapment" sometimes?!?

I don't understand why you guys would allow speed cameras and red light cameras in your cities though...? Do you not realize that they do absolutely nothing for safety and are only there to make your fellow citizens more poor and give more of your hard earned money to the state to build more cameras to spy on you? What do you want to be... London?


So yea, if you could tell me about Albuquerque that'd be great.

[Billygoat the Kid]

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

I thought Albuquerque was a pretty neat place, with good scenery. The people I conversed with were polite, etc. But I still didn't get a good enough feel for the city I believe. I had one person tell me that "This (Albuquerque) is the worst place ever"... I didn't bother to ask why but am curious to any of your reasons why this could be? I also would like an explanation to why New Mexico is called the "land of entrapment" sometimes?!?

This gets mentioned in this group a lot. I'll give you my opinion, which that and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee. But, I'll give it to you anyway.

I think the reason why the person said this was the worst place ever ties in with the surrogate play of the moniker, "Land of Entrapment". In other words, the reason why people dislike it here is because of the poverty and lack (or perceived lack) of economic opportunity. Without money and the ability to make money, and without the ability to better yourself, you cannot escape Albuquerque/ New Mexico and become trapped. Hence, you have the "Land of Entrapment". Some that do escape - such as myself - are drawn back into the state due to some circumstance.

Once this place entraps you, it's hard to get out. How can one escape when you have no money, job, education, etc.? If you'd like to read more on this subject, please feel free to read some of my earlier posts.

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

I don't understand why you guys would allow speed cameras and red light cameras in your cities though...? Do you not realize that they do absolutely nothing for safety and are only there to make your fellow citizens more poor and give more of your hard earned money to the state to build more cameras to spy on you? What do you want to be... London?

Well, we did not allow these cameras in the first place. The Mayor who did allow these cameras was promptly sent packing and will be leaving office in a few months. Hopefully, he will become a civilian and learn how to work for one's money rather than spending it all on himself. I doubt that will ever happen, as being in government is very lucrative for the non-working individual. I mean, how difficult can it be to sit around and think of ways to legally steal money from hard-working citizens?

As for London.... beautiful city, lots of history, beautiful architecture, and wonderful pubs. That's great for London, but I don't think it would work here - except maybe the pubs. I'm not one for socialism anyway, so I'll keep my gun and my taxes low, thankyouverymuch.

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

So yea, if you could tell me about Albuquerque that'd be great.

It's a nice town to retire to. And it's a very easy town to live in, as the people here are somewhat friendly and you are not in a hurry all the time. The food is good, the weather is perfect, the geography is beautiful, and there are things to do.

However, do not expect to make money here. There is no money in this state. Never has been, never will be. Money comes from other states and the people who move here. Jobs do not pay well out here compared to that of larger cities. Do not expect to make a lot of money in a position here. There are only a few major employers here in Burque: Intel (Rio Ranch), APS, UNM, Sandia/KAFB, Hospitals, and a few others. When you look at the pay even at some of these places, you will know what I am talking about. Most of the other jobs are non-degreed jobs. They do not pay very well. As an example, the minimum wage for a server/bartender is $2.13 or so an hour! You read that right - two dollars and thirteen cents. Tell me, how can one live on that, even with tips?

And do not expect things to get done. It just doesn't happen. People here do not know how to do things, especially business-wise. The lack of professionalism in most of the places I have worked and been involved with is laughable. I could write an entire book of the unprofessional attitude of my colleagues out here.

So, if you are planning to move here, make sure you just want a nice, slower change of pace, where things are simpler and slow. If you think that you will come here to relax, maybe retire, have a nice little job that pays a somewhat livable salary, and take it easy, this may be the place for you.

If you move to Albuquerque expecting to make a high wage and climb the corporate ladder to a cushy job, forget it. This is not your town and you will be in misery. In other words, have money saved before you move here! If you think things are going to get done for you, forget it! There's another moniker we use out here: "The Land of Mañana". That means, your chores will get done tomorrow. Doesn't matter if you need a job, or if your bills need to get paid, or if you have a deadline - mañana, mañana, mañana.

Just my thoughts. I'll await the maelstrom that will happen after I post this.


--BtK

[rybert]

You're right, it was wrong to put-up those speed cameras... as though we were asked if they could be put-up.

[Mike Horrell]

Originally Posted by Billygoat the Kid

It's a nice town to retire to. And it's a very easy town to live in, as the people here are somewhat friendly and you are not in a hurry all the time. The food is good, the weather is perfect, the geography is beautiful, and there are things to do.

However, do not expect to make money here. There is no money in this state. Never has been, never will be. Money comes from other states and the people who move here. Jobs do not pay well out here compared to that of larger cities.

Billy has a couple good points. I'm not sure that I completely agree with his statement
that there is NO money here since some people seem to be doing pretty well, but this is
definitely not Gnu Yawk Ciddy..

If you have a decent job or other income on arrival here, you'll probably really like it;
if you're in a position where you're receiving waiters' wages, then you may not find
ABQ as friendly since the growth ladder doesn't reach very far up or down from the midpoint. .

Originally Posted by Billygoat the Kid

And do not expect things to get done. It just doesn't happen. People here do not know how to do things, especially business-wise. The lack of professionalism in most of the places I have worked and been involved with is laughable. I could write an entire book of the unprofessional attitude of my colleagues out here.

I can't completely agree with this. For the most part we have received good service from
most vendors such as A/C repair, electricians, etc., as well as store clerks, restaurant workers, etc.,
but the MEDICAL services provided by the two big clinic systems are absolutely p*ss poor...

and I'm saying this as someone who just moved here after spending 3 years in Central America..

[rybert]

I'm making more here than I was in Houston, A LOT MORE... go figure.

[Burquebinder]

Billygoat,

The $2.13 pay for servers is typically of tipped wages throughout the country (excepting California, which recently raised those wages). When I lived in D.C. I made about the same tipped wage as a server, and the cost of living was a multiple of 3 or 4 times what you find in ABQ. As tips are a pretty standard 15-20% anywhere, you're actually far better off working as a server in ABQ.

Sure, wages are lower here than most places - but so is cost of living. Negative attitudes of locals towards their hometowns exist everywhere I've lived. If you want an accurate opinion of a place, ask someone who is a fairly recent transplant. I've lived in Houston, Omaha, Portland, Madison, Boston, and Washington D.C. and I can say without a doubt ABQ is a great place to live. However, if you're going to move here, please find a place in an already established neighborhood. The landscapes here are too beautiful to eat it up with sprawl.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

I thought Albuquerque was a pretty neat place, with good scenery.

Really, in the end, that's all that counts - its what works for you, right? I am one of ABQ's extremely biggest lovers and advocates around, and I couldn't love the town more.

Others, ABQ doesn't really work out well for them. Some might even really dislike living in the town.

My question? Who cares! All the power to them. If it works for me, and it doesn't for them, well, thank God, as part of the reason I love the town is that the metro is still not even yet a million. If everyone else loved it, it would be a huge mass of 20+ million folks and then ABQ wouldn't be ABQ and I wouldn't love it so much!

Moral of this story: No town fits / works for everyone. Different strokes for different folks, variety is the spice of life, etc., etc., etc.; all of that stuff.

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

I had one person tell me that "This (Albuquerque) is the worst place ever"... I didn't bother to ask why but am curious to any of your reasons why this could be?

The possible reasons are infinite. Who knows in short, brief, emotion-laden statements what perspective a person is coming from?

One thing I can assure you though, is that if you go to any of the thousands and thousands of cities / towns in the US, you'll find - in each and every one of them - someone(s) on a daily basis willing to make such a comment about that town. Each and every one.

If you don't believe me, peruse each and every other town's forum on this here CD Forum site. Seriously. Go to Atlanta. Go to, oh, say, Alaska (I dont' think they have a specific city forum). Go to Kansas City. Go to Portland. Go to Chicago's. Go to Reno's. Etc., etc., etc. On each and every one of those forums - and all of the others - you'll find people bellyaching and complaining that their city is the "worst there is" and "horrible"; sometimes they'll have some good points as to why they might find the town poor, other times its just emotional, baggage-laden drivel.

Many times, its stuff that has happened negatively *to them* in their own personal lives that allows them to cast blame on the whole town (eg: their spouse cheats on them, they have a crummy doctor, their bus driver is crude, they lost their job, they got mugged, etc., etc., etc.).

So, who knows why this person was ornery about ABQ? Maybe they had gotten fired the day before. Maybe someone cut them off on I-25 that morning. Maybe they've lived in ABQ their whole lives and are suffering from a "grass is greener over there" syndrome. Maybe their dog died. Maybe they were just released from prison and their parole officer was being mean. The reasons are infinite.

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

I also would like an explanation to why New Mexico is called the "land of entrapment" sometimes?!?

Well, I am guessing you realize that this is a take off of the nickname of the state - The Land of Enchantment.

Whenever I have heard Land of Entrapment, I have generally heard it in a more endearing sense. People that love NM or ABQ generally viscerally, spiritually, passionately, or obsessively (not naming names here) LOVE it. I mean REALLY LOVE NM. In a way you might not find as much in many other states / towns. Thus, once - especially transplants - hit NM and/or ABQ and passionately discover their immense love for the town - it is hard to ever get them back out. Be it for a good job offer or for an impending marriage, it is hard to convince such a lover of ABQ / NM to ever really want to leave, even if for "logical" reasons. And even if they do (here I am raising my hand), their heart continues to desire to be back. EG: They are "entraped".

Is it used in a more semi-derisive / derogatory way as well (eg: the native that can never seem to be able to "get out" to the "brighter lights" elsewhere)? I am sure it is. You find this syndrome nearly everywhere in the nation. For as "globalized" and "mobile" as we are all supposed to be in today's age, the percentages are startlingly amazing how still people tend to live in the same areas / regions that they were born.

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

I don't understand why you guys would allow speed cameras and red light cameras in your cities though...? Do you not realize that they do absolutely nothing for safety and are only there to make your fellow citizens more poor and give more of your hard earned money to the state to build more cameras to spy on you? What do you want to be... London?

Many people of course agreed with your line of reasoning / thinking, and of course, this was (and always has been) a highly-charged political debate amongst citizens.

I would advise its almost not worth discussing in this thread, as if you do a little research, you'll find like a kajillion-post thread here in this forum where the red light cameras were argued / debated, etc.

While I tend to politically myself agree with your bottom line, let me assure you that those damned red light cameras aren't exactly exclusive to Albuquerque. You'll find them now commonly throughout many, many cities in the US. Hell, I think ABQ got the idea from Phoenix after PHX installed them all. I think El Paso still has all of theirs. I believe Chicago utilizes them. In fact, up here currently in Milwaukee, I always thought one of my favorite aspects of here is that they currently haven't taken or caught on yet, yet I am sure here it is only a matter of time as well.

I guess what I am saying is that of course this is a highly charged political topic, and of course there was quite a bit of debate over them. Many did oppose. But still, this is not exclusive to ABQ by a long shot.

(On a final note on that, I had heard rumors / rumblings / conjecture when I was in town from 6 Oct to 14 Oct that the newly-elected Mayor, Richard Berry, might be interested in eliminating the program, however, I don't know how accurate or truthful that is. I guess, though, perhaps the cameras will die / be gone once the new mayor takes over).

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

So yea, if you could tell me about Albuquerque that'd be great.

Everyone has their own perspective. If you search my name and corresponding posts on the CD Forum, you'll find years of love sonnets and blatherings about how much ABQ works for me.

I will say this. As a youngish professional male in my early-to-mid-30s with a family, I would pick ABQ above anywhere else to settle my family in for the next 20, 30 years. I love the vast, bright blue sunny (300+ days of sunshine annually) skies, the dry air, the relative lack of rain/snow/ice/fog, the mountains, the vistas, the petroglyphs, the Rio Grande, the bosque, the mild year round temps but with actual winter and summer (eg: all four seasons), the food, the local culture/flavor, the cost of living, the taxes, the architecture, the history, the chile, the size; I could name a trillion other items, but just check out my "101+ reasons I miss Albuquerque" thread...that'll cover far more!

[mrgoodwx]

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

I thought Albuquerque was a pretty neat place, with good scenery. The people I conversed with were polite, etc. But I still didn't get a good enough feel for the city I believe. I had one person tell me that "This (Albuquerque) is the worst place ever"... I didn't bother to ask why but am curious to any of your reasons why this could be? I also would like an explanation to why New Mexico is called the "land of entrapment" sometimes?!?

I don't understand why you guys would allow speed cameras and red light cameras in your cities though...? Do you not realize that they do absolutely nothing for safety and are only there to make your fellow citizens more poor and give more of your hard earned money to the state to build more cameras to spy on you? What do you want to be... London?

So yea, if you could tell me about Albuquerque that'd be great.

If I were visiting a city and someone told me it was the worst place ever, my curiosity would force me to ask for an explanation. It could be the crime, maybe he just had a bad meal in a restaurant, or maybe his wife decided 5 years ago that celibacy would be great for her spiritual growth. The possibilities are endless.

As far the as the red light cameras go, the impression I've gotten from the studies I've read is that any safety improvements have been marginal at best because the people who used to run red lights and hit you at an angle in the intersection now rear end you since they want you to run the red ahead of them instead of stopping. So...I guess it's been a wash?

[Billygoat the Kid]

Originally Posted by Mike Horrell

Billy has a couple good points. I'm not sure that I completely agree with his statement
that there is NO money here since some people seem to be doing pretty well, but this is
definitely not Gnu Yawk Ciddy..

Thanks, Mike.

Let me kinda clarify what I meant. In Burque, you just don't have the career opportunity you would have when compared to a larger city. We do not have the resources. If you ever lived in Los Angeles, like I did, one would notice there is a plethora of industry out there. With those industries come jobs - a lot of high paying jobs and careers. When you compare that and the rate of pay out there to here, you can see the disparity.

Originally Posted by Mike Horrell

If you have a decent job or other income on arrival here, you'll probably really like it;
if you're in a position where you're receiving waiters' wages, then you may not find
ABQ as friendly since the growth ladder doesn't reach very far up or down from the midpoint. .

True. Just take a look again at Los Angeles. If I was making $100K+ a year and lived in a home that appreciated by $450K in L.A., then decided to move here and buy a home cash, then put the rest in a bank... yeah, I think I'd be pretty happy.

OTOH, if I came here with no degree and no job, and got caught in the rut of working for menial pay, I don't think I'd like it too much. Also, consider the night life of bigger cities, along with the many different things to do. When you come from a city that has all that, you might think Burque is just a little boring.

When I left Burque, I was amazed at all the money out there. It was amazing. Endless things to do and places to go. And I made money there, a lot more than I did here. Upon moving back, I struggled for a long time to get a foothold here. That was very frustrating to me. In L.A., I had a job in a week. Out here, it took me forever to start my career. It's just two vastly different worlds.

Originally Posted by Mike Horrell

I can't completely agree with this. For the most part we have received good service from
most vendors such as A/C repair, electricians, etc., as well as store clerks, restaurant workers, etc.,
but the MEDICAL services provided by the two big clinic systems are absolutely p*ss poor...

and I'm saying this as someone who just moved here after spending 3 years in Central America..

Funny, but I have never had a problem with medical services here. That's just my luck, I guess. But when it comes to government, and other businesses that I have been involved with, it was all about "tomorrow". That reminds me, I once talked to this former Marine from NYC about buying one of my cars. I felt his frustration when he talked about nothing getting done out here. And he lived in Torrance County, which only made it worse.


--BtK

[loborick]

That must have been awhile ago because I know a couple of people that have moved back here because they could not find a job in LA. Another friend is ticked off because he is furloughed every week or two from his state job in Fresno. California is hurting way more than we are right now. It's not the land of milk and honey you make it out to be. 18 months ago, maybe. Now...not so much.