Defensive Albuquerque Forum??? (Socorro: live, shop, moving to)

[Handsome]

Originally Posted by casden

Handsome:

I completely understand what your trying to say, and for the the most part I agree with you about the issues you bring up. However, these are issues that deal with the municiple/local government and not the other actual citizens that live in ABQ, or their sphere of experience in Albuquerque.

When a poster replies in a thread about the inadequate, inefficient, and all around scr*wed up city government in ABQ I haven't seen people get very defensive. They seem to get defensive when a poster begins making remarks that thoughtlessly linger on the edge of racism. In addition. the said posters have then made remarks with extremely inflamatory words like "dirty", "ugly", "lazy", etc. when describing the overall city (when the city government is the remotest target of their offense).

Anyway, this is a forum on the internet, where people are continuoisly writing their opinions/perspectives - so in my mind, the defensive replies are what should happen, and in some cases should be encouraged. If posters on other city forums decide that they don't want to respond to someone who claims their city is horrible and dirty, and the people there are lazy and the brown (or whatever) landscape is ugly, and on and on... that's their perogative. However, without debate to the aforementioned claims it would appear that the citizens of that city either "don't care" and are indifferent, or aren't prepared enough to debate and defend the place they chose to live.

My main point here is that there is an immense difference between scorning a city's government and davaluing a city's citizens and their home. Devaluing the citizens of a city and the place that they call home should always perpetuate a debate...and sometimes these debates become defensive, especially when inflamatory descriptors are used.


Oh and BTW - no offense (and no sarcasm meant), but I think you should stick to "Handsome" - it's just much easier to remember than the other name.

Casden,

Did you read the April 3, 2004 edition of the ABQ Journal? At the time,
Sperling's Best Places to Live placed this city as Number 65 out of
a survey of 80 cities in terms of dating/singles life. Here is
the link to the article: http://www.abqjournal.com/news/metro...ro04-03-04.htm.

May I ask for elaboration on posters devaluing the citizens? Is it degrading
the citizenry when one says there are a fair amount of persons who
have been hired due to lucky sperm club membership? Some may say
that is an attack on those persons or the institutions that hire them.

For example, I brought many of these issues up in a thread called
The Truth About Albuquerque and another thread about what people
like and dislike about the city and got attacked for trolling. Well,
I say that if people do not want honest opinions, don't ask and
don't offer up forums where people may post opinions that are
not cheerleading for the city.

[funkymonkey]

Originally Posted by Handsome

Casden,

Did you read the April 3, 2004 edition of the ABQ Journal? At the time,
Sperling's Best Places to Live placed this city as Number 65 out of
a survey of 80 cities in terms of dating/singles life. Here is
the link to the article: ABQjournal: Duke City Ranks 65th at Playing the Dating Game.

And I have two other links showing it ranking well for singles.

Albuquerque named among best cities for relocating singles - New Mexico Business Weekly:
25 Best Cities for Active Singles - AOL Personals

So what?

[casden]

...as I stated earlier:

"Devaluing the citizens of a city and the place that they call home should always perpetuate a debate...and sometimes these debates become defensive, especially when inflamatory descriptors are used."

I think the old addage "...there's always two sides to every story" really applies to this thread and this entire forum.

I understand how you might feel that you were attacked when you posted on "The Truth About Albuquerque" thread, and I'm sorry that happened, but after reading the postings on that thread, I can see why people who did not have the experience that the original poster had in ABQ would become defensive.

For example this first paragraph from the initial posting on that thread stated - "Homless people are all over Albuquerque anywhere on Central and Downtown. They dont only ask, but demand you give them money. If you park your car to go in a restaurant, at least two individuals will want your money as you go in and two as you go out. They are drunk, stinky, and some are shirtless. They all will get close enough to touch you.
There are not many elgible single young people around inspite of UNM. And the few that are here leave in the Summer as there are no jobs and not much to do (except go hiking maybe, and it does get old believe me)."

I rarely experienced this in ABQ, and if I did, it didn't happen to me to this extent, so I really can't relate to this statement, and I feel a need to offer another view of ABQ, but I also feel that the generalizations sound like they are from someone who is just very unhappy with where they live and they want to paint a misleading picture of that place. Even though that may not have been the original posters intention at all, the inflamatory generalized statements caused me, as a person who had a different experience in that city, to respond in an animate way.

Just an FYI (and an personal observation - so take it as you will). I lived in San Francisco, where there were many, many homeless people in several different parts of the city (and some of them could become aggressive sometimes). Also, I see many homeless people everyday as I go to work in the Chicago Loop (and I've even had a homeless person occasionally come into a restaurant as I was eating lunch and ask for money, right at my table). But these incidents happen occasionally, and in my perspective, they happen in many cities - so I don't identify San Francisco or Chicago with this uncomfortable situation.

The issues brought up in the "Truth About Albuquerque" thread and my issues here are generalizations and are only one perspective (I'm sure they may be based on experience), but would obviously bait the other people who live or love ABQ to debate. These debates may sometimes become defensive as they describe their very different experience in ABQ.

While I'll agree that you may have been attacked, I also agree that most posters would have taken the bait and responded in an animate way to these really negative generalizations about Albuquerque. Some just happened to respond in a knee-jerk reactionary type of way - instead of trying to have a thoughtful discussion. This is an open forum, so I guess we should expect these types of responses, sometimes.

[Handsome]

Originally Posted by funkymonkey

And I have two other links showing it ranking well for singles.

Albuquerque named among best cities for relocating singles - New Mexico Business Weekly:
25 Best Cities for Active Singles - AOL Personals

So what?

The NM Business Weekly is a local publication that is vested in promoting
positivity about the city and state. Sorry but it does not meet the
objectivity threshold.

Granted, the Sperling piece was 4 years ago and things have changed.
I wrote Sperling recently and asked if they had anything more recent
and they said they did not. I will grant that the information is
not current but I still believe it to be a valid piece to at least gauge
the issue.

I'll gladly take a look at the 2 pieces of info you provided though.


"I don't take cases with foundations in bull****." Andrew Dice Clay
as Rock and Roll Detective Ford Fairlane: THE ADVENTURES OF
FORD FAIRLANE

[Towanda]

Handsome,

I am still having quite a bit of trouble understanding where you are coming from.

You seem really concerned in finding anything negative you can about ABQ/NM.

Do you already live there or are you thinking of moving there?

Are you looking for anything negative you can to try and talk yourself out of it? Are you trying to talk others out of it?

I guess I am too concerned with living my life to try and look for negatives in every nook and cranny. I am sure there are negatives in every part of this country.....but unless you are considering a move to NM, why does all this concern you so much?

There are so many places you could choose to live....or criticize.

The reason I am not getting all concerned over the criticisms you and ILOVEAUSTIN have is that I truly don't look at New Mexico and try to find everything that is wrong with it. Maybe that is the reason why I really find mostly good things when I am out there, and why I just cannot wait to move.

[Six Foot Three]

Originally Posted by Handsome

The NM Business Weekly is a local publication that is vested in promoting
positivity about the city and state. Sorry but it does not meet the
objectivity threshold.

Sorry but it's owned by American City Business Journals Inc out of Charlotte NC which has 41 media markets as Albuquerque is just one of their markets.
bizjournals: Local Business News

Oh and i've been reading them for years including Jacksonville Florida and Tampa Florida and Phoenix Arizona Business Journal papers online and i've read many negative business stories about these cities over the years. Its not their intent to SPIN positive news but rather to give the business news objectively so business owners etc..can make objective decisions as to where and where not to base their business operations in the United States in these markets that they have chosen.

[Handsome]

Originally Posted by Towanda

Handsome,

I am still having quite a bit of trouble understanding where you are coming from.

You seem really concerned in finding anything negative you can about ABQ/NM.

Do you already live there or are you thinking of moving there?

Are you looking for anything negative you can to try and talk yourself out of it? Are you trying to talk others out of it?

I guess I am too concerned with living my life to try and look for negatives in every nook and cranny. I am sure there are negatives in every part of this country.....but unless you are considering a move to NM, why does all this concern you so much?

There are so many places you could choose to live....or criticize.

The reason I am not getting all concerned over the criticisms you and ILOVEAUSTIN have is that I truly don't look at New Mexico and try to find everything that is wrong with it. Maybe that is the reason why I really find mostly good things when I am out there, and why I just cannot wait to move.

You raise some good questions. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
I went to APS schools and graduated from the University of New
Mexico with a degree in political science.

Up until now, I had only posted several posts on this forum. The reason
I got into this one is I know exactly where ILOVEAUSTION is coming
from because even as an Albuquerquean, I have experienced what he
has. On Duke City Fix, I was called a self hating Albuquerquean who
likely lived in a boiler room or basement.

This forum is more open minded then Duke City Fix; a blog founded by
a person who used to be the webmaster for City Hall.

I like to use the Frederick Douglas quote because we should never be
afraid to have honest discussions about our city or our country. I like
Albuquerque. But, I am not afraid to point out its wrongs. It is like
loving the United States. But, I also am not afraid to admit that the
American experience and dream has not been felt by many. The
same can be said for Albuquerque.

The negatives have to be exposed and harped on in order for change
to happen. Just as in the 1950s and 1960s, there were great things
about America. But, there were flaws-segregation, lack of opportunities
for women. Things only changed when people were willing to
take a critical look and have an honest evaluation.

The same thing goes for any city. Chicago was blatantly corrupt. The
only thing that changed that was a federal investigation and case
which put many alderman and city officials in jail (William Roemer,
ACCARDO: THE GENUINE GODFATHER). While the Windy City still
has its share of corruption, it is not near what it was in the golden
years of the Chicago Mob and the Cook County machine.

Hell, even at the New Mexico State Fair last year, a gentleman from
Chicago who had a stand called RibTips joked that even in crooked
ass Cook County, it is easier to get things done than it is here.
Go figure.

When a person lives somewhere like I live in Albuquerque, I believe
dissent from the often blind boosterism is a neccessity to offer
opposing views. To put it simply, there has to be opposition; debate
and dissent.

As for the negatives I look for, these are all matters of public record
and public knowledge. I never slag the city based on demographics;
class; race or ethnicity. I use newspapers but I also refer to my own
personal experiences. But, no one can accuse me of starting flame
wars via using ethnic or racial slurs or class references.

As Douglas said, a true patriot loves his country but rebukes its sins.
As Senator (and the next President) Obama says, flag pins and
jingoism are simply subsitutes for substance.

I say that yes, Albuquerque is growing. But, let's ask these questions:

1: Tax Increment Development Districts: Is it right or fair to take
public money from existing areas to subsidize fringe devleopment
and therefore, private profit? Who benefits?

2: The Forbes 2006 ranking was a great boost for self image. But,
did that ranking of Top Places for Business flow down to the worker
in terms of great places for wages or jobs? Did it correlate to
an increase in real wages and jobs?

3: Schools: Did anyone read the letters to the ABQ Journal from students
at Jefferson Middle School? If Jefferson is one of the better schools,
I do not want to see the underperforming ones.

I am not a self hating ALbuquerquean. Please spare me the cliche of
telling me to go somewhere else. Maybe I will, maybe I won't.
I will keep writing what I believe to be honest opinions, good and
bad. There is only one way that I will be silenced and I do not think
anyone wants to spend the rest of their days in prison because they
dislike what I write.

[penelopelp]

I agree that discourse is important. I think that we should be involved in what is going on in our city. For example, I live near a busy corner that is no pedestrian friendly. My plan is to email the city and give my suggestions for how the city could make it more pedestrian friendly. Maybe I should attend planning meetings? I do see a problem, and I am either going to a) make an effort to change the problem, or b) stop complaining about it. I feel like if I keep complaining about this intersection, but never get involved in changing it, then I'm doing nothing except focusing on negative feelings.

Another example is regarding the "car culture" in ABQ & the rest of the country. I think the city has made great strides in public transportation, and making the city more bikeable. We have made the effort to check out the bike maps & the bus routes before running our errands. We have traveled a lot of the city by bus, foot, & bicycle. That means that there is one less car on the road. It's also a lot less stress & more enjoyable.

[yukon]

I will say one thing, I'll take "defensiveness" over negativity any day.

I wandered over to two other non-NM city forums this evening and man were they negative! If those posters hate those cities that much, they need to move. I've read negative comments here on the ABQ forum, but the overall ATTITUDE of the ABQ forum is upbeat and positive. I happen to think that's a good thing.

[funkymonkey]

Originally Posted by Handsome

The NM Business Weekly is a local publication that is vested in promoting
positivity about the city and state. Sorry but it does not meet the
objectivity threshold.

If you had bothered to read the article, you would have seen that Sperling is one of the sources of the data, and New Mexico Business Weekly didn't come up with the list either.