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First, it is hardly a "media frenzy"in regards to the russian ban on adoptions. I haven't seen it on any news show at all.
Second, if 19 are dead, how many more are dead, abused, etc and not being reported? I think that is what is concerning to lots of people. And since we have no idea how many children are being put in harm's way, I also, have no real interest in once again patting all the APs on the back about what a great job they are doing. It is important to remember that when we are trying to prevent child abuse, even within biological families, we do not have to mention at every turn, all the kids who are not abused. If adopted families are just families, why do APs need to be treated differently?
Finally, and this is a sad fact, but adopted children, like all children living with a non-biological parent are more likely to be abused than children living with just their biological parents or family members.
And no one is asking to be patted on the back for adopting a child. Not sure where you are getting this but it seems to be a repeated comment that you are fond of making in these threads. I'm simply trying to give another perspective as an adoptive parent and I wish that Russian citizens could take a peek in our household at times to see how the kids are doing. I'm sure proud of mine even though the road hasn't been easy. I'm sure that experiences will vary and not all adoptive situations are good. Just as biological situations are not all good either. Parents can be knuckleheads and that applies to both adoptive and biological parents.
Secondly, I can't give you a number beyond the one being reported. How many do you think are dead, abused or neglected since your brought it up? 19? 2000? 20,000? 40,000? Do you think abuse of foreign adopted children is a trend amongst adoptive parents? I'm really curious to see where you stand on this. My final question to you-- Do you think Russia should halt adoptions to the US? What is your stand on this issue?
And no one is asking to be patted on the back for adopting a child. Not sure where you are getting this but it seems to be a repeated comment that you are fond of making in these threads. I'm simply trying to give another perspective as an adoptive parent and I wish that Russian citizens could take a peek in our household at times to see how the kids are doing. I'm sure proud of mine even though the road hasn't been easy. I'm sure that experiences will vary and not all adoptive situations are good. Just as biological situations are not all good either. Parents can be knuckleheads and that applies to both adoptive and biological parents.
The reason I think that some APs want special recognition can be found in many of the threads here. I have only seen two countered the "saintly" descriptions, with the assertion that they are parents, no more no less.
Secondly, it is beyond ridiculous to expect the Russian government to send social workers to homes in the US to repeatedly check on every child ever adopted. We do not even do that with out own domestically adopted children.
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Secondly, I can't give you a number beyond the one being reported. How many do you think are dead, abused or neglected since your brought it up? 19? 2000? 20,000? 40,000?
No idea beyond the idea that it is more. But I will not pretend that I do know or use anecdotes to support a particular belief. Additionally, I do not know why the number matters. One child dead is justification enough to change a system.
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Do you think abuse of foreign adopted children is a trend amongst adoptive parents?
I am assuming you mean something other than "trend" here. Maybe correlation? The number of reported fatalities is on the rise likewise a relative increase in the number of adopted children. So yes, there is a relationship.
And as I have posted before, there is a greater likelihood for child abuse when a child does not live with its biological parents, ESPECIALLY, when you control for SES.
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I'm really curious to see where you stand on this. My final question to you-- Do you think Russia should halt adoptions to the US? What is your stand on this issue?
I think that Russia has every right to decide the fate of its citizens and if they perceive there is an issue, than they have a moral obligation to ensure that the system changes. I also do not think any PAP is entitled to any child, Russian or otherwise. So if THEY decide to close their country to US adoptions, APs have no entitlement to recourse.
I do think everyone has the right to express their humanitarian views regarding child welfare and are of course able to donate time, money, etc improving those children's lives. WITHOUT the expectation of then being entitled to adopt there.
The reason I think that some APs want special recognition can be found in many of the threads here. I have only seen two countered the "saintly" descriptions, with the assertion that they are parents, no more no less.
Secondly, it is beyond ridiculous to expect the Russian government to send social workers to homes in the US to repeatedly check on every child ever adopted. We do not even do that with out own domestically adopted children.
No idea beyond the idea that it is more. But I will not pretend that I do know or use anecdotes to support a particular belief. Additionally, I do not know why the number matters. One child dead is justification enough to change a system.
I am assuming you mean something other than "trend" here. Maybe correlation? The number of reported fatalities is on the rise likewise a relative increase in the number of adopted children. So yes, there is a relationship.
And as I have posted before, there is a greater likelihood for child abuse when a child does not live with its biological parents, ESPECIALLY, when you control for SES.
I think that Russia has every right to decide the fate of its citizens and if they perceive there is an issue, than they have a moral obligation to ensure that the system changes. I also do not think any PAP is entitled to any child, Russian or otherwise. So if THEY decide to close their country to US adoptions, APs have no entitlement to recourse.
I do think everyone has the right to express their humanitarian views regarding child welfare and are of course able to donate time, money, etc improving those children's lives. WITHOUT the expectation of then being entitled to adopt there.
Thanks for the honest answer. Interesting to read other viewpoints and to see where they are coming from. You and I have a different view on life although I think we both agree that the welfare of child is of vital importance. As I've said before, I hope that Russia sort through these issues. As you say, it is their decision. I pray that should this happen, they do the right thing lest the children suffer.
In response to what I bolded though. No I'm not expecting that the Russian government will send social workers personally to my house. You made me giggle a bit because that is just silly (although one article did mention visits which I found interesting). I'm just saying I wish that they could have a hypothetic peek into my house to see how my kids are doing. I'm super proud of my children and I wish that I could share some of that with critics of foreign adoptions. Of course I know it won't happen.....please don't take me so literally... I will correct you on one thing--we were required for three years to provide homestudies that were translated, notarized and apostilled, and sent back to Russia with pictures. So after our adoption, we had three more home visits with social worker. In a way, they did get a peek into our house, albeit through a US social worker. Not sure if this happens in domestic or adoptions from other countries. It was a requirement for us and we happily complied.
Finally, point out posts by adoptive parents that describe themselves as saintly. I'm certainly not and if I've claimed sainthood on any other thread, I must had too many glasses of wine. On the contrary--some days I feel like pulling my hair out. My husband and I had other days asking ourselves we if did the right thing and if we the right parent for our daugther. I've cried at school meetings, with friends, in front of my kids. No ikb, I'm certainly not a saint nor have I had anyone say that to me for being an adoptee parent. I've had to correct a few people telling me "how lucky my kids are." Nah, I'm the lucky one and I feel fortunate that we can provide them a better situation than what they had. I have also asked my daughter's therapist how I'm doing as an adoptee parent---Am I addressing my kid's needs adequantly? How do we address adoptions issues? Our therapist, an adoptee herself, has given us great advice and when she tells us that we are doing just fine, that gives me comfort. I'm trying my best as a parent and I'm sure that we will have many more bumps along the way. Sainthood? Hell no. I'm just floundering along like most other parents, biological or adoptive.
I will leave you with one thought. If anyone needs a bit pat on the back, I will pat my daughter on the back and tell you how proud I am of her making the progress she has. She had some huge challenges to overcome and I have great hopes for her future. Time will tell as we continue to try our best. My son was fortunate to be adopted at a younger age so while he has a few institution related issues, he has fared much better.
Again, offering a bit more perspective and response to a few of your comments, especially the one about sainthood which is quite unfair actually.
Linmora referred to the three years' worth of reports back which Russia requires of adoptive parents. Ukraine has similar requirements, but for five years initially, followed by less frequent reports up to the age of eighteen, if I remember correctly. These reports must be accompanied by photographs of the children.
Knowing what I know about the widely varying conditions of the many, many orphanages throughout Russia, I deplore the efforts to stop adoptions by loving and qualified American parents. I also would LOVE to see more domestic adoptions by loving and qualified Russian families, and suggest that similar safeguards be applied to them as well, as there are stories of Russian children being adopted by Russians who want free labor rather than children. Again, these are stories, and I cannot document or prove them - but the well-being of the children, in whatever country they live, needs to be paramount in all cases.
In the notorious Tennessee case, the adoptive parent (a single mother, as I recall) had ready access to Vanderbilt's international adoption clinic right up the road in Nashville, along with an active support group of and for parents of internationally adopted children, and access to information about children with special needs at the Kennedy Center (possibly renamed now - it's been awhile since I visited it) at the Peabody College campus right across the street from the Vanderbilt Medical Center which houses the international adoption clinic. I never saw any evidence that any of these agencies or organizations were consulted, nor does it appear that any form of individual or family therapy was sought for either the parent or child (or both).
I do not understand how the adoptive mother managed to qualify to adopt this little boy, and deplore her choices, which imperiled adoption for many absolutely wonderful, well-qualified, well-informed and educated parents who wanted to adopt other children with special needs, whose chances of being adopted in their native country were next to zero....
When it comes to adoptions in Uganda, the Malaika Children's Home has helped lead the way in getting more native Ugandans (or long term Ugandan residents) to adopt. This is after everything has been done to make sure the child is free for adoption.**
I know that the Malaika Children's Home follow up on adoptions up to 3 years after the adoption.
**When a child is found abandoned, the Home has its own people who do detective work immediately the child is handed in. They have been able to place many children back with their extended families - again, there is a 3 year follow-up. Also, if the family needs help finding work, then they are helped in regards to finding self-employment opportunities - I can't remember the name of it but many of you might have heard of an organisation where you can "loan" money to an African person to start their own business (by "loan", I mean you can send a donation which is often enough to help start a business - you get to choose whom you wish to help and often get updates - others might know which organisation I'm talking about).
Russia is using the poor orphans as pawns in a political argument is all. It's very sad.
That's what it is all about, and a lot of Russians are outraged by this decision. There are already 100,000 signatures collected against it. What people are stressing first of all, is that only Americans are taking handicapped children for adoption, (and at least these children have a chance,) where Russian families do not. (That is in response to those who are saying that all children should be adopted by Russian families.)
This proposed response to Magnitski's law from authorities stirred a lot of emotions in the society.
RF official; "And now put down your stupid law, slowly..."
"The parliament, that is taking revenge on orphans because someone dared to offend corrupted officials - that's the "end of the world" for you right there."
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I will correct you on one thing--we were required for three years to provide homestudies that were translated, notarized and apostilled, and sent back to Russia with pictures. So after our adoption, we had three more home visits with social worker. In a way, they did get a peek into our house, albeit through a US social worker. Not sure if this happens in domestic or adoptions from other countries. It was a requirement for us and we happily complied.
