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True, but I guess some might label it a transitional/border state because it wasn't officially part of the Confederacy.
Exactly...thats what I meant. I agree that the culture of KY is pretty Southern but I've encountered a lot of people that don't define it as apart of the "true south" because they weren't apart of the Confederacy.
I don't necessarily believe that but I've just heard it a bit.
What most parts of the state are you referring to? Watch the movie Giant, when West Texas was living up to that stereotype.
Although I will not speak for Nairobi, I definitely (and have in the past) agree with the points made when put into a broader and more relevant context.
The movie "Giant" -- which I love -- is somewhat akin to many of those old Hollywood "western" movies (actually filmed in Arizona and southern California), in that that it formed a popular image of Texas that essentially by-passed Texas basic connection to the South itself. Of course, that is perfectly understandable from an entertainment aspect. In reality, however, the average Texan who made the fortune from either oil or cattle, was either a settler from the southeast or the decendent of the same. Thus, the attitudes (religious, political, etc) were Southern and remain so. The rancher of the true West or the oilman of the gusher had far more in common with the Tennessee/Alabama stock (no pun intended) they came from, than with any influences of NM and AZ...which did not even become states until long after Texas became one...
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Mexican=Culture does not equal Southwest. It influences it. You're doing the exact same thing relating to Southern Culture here.
Actually, not at all, I dont think...
This is perhaps the most important point. What it seems you are doing is comparing apples and oranges. The influence of the anglo/black duality of the South shaped Texas and was the driving force. The Mexican influence -- while definitely colorful and present -- was pretty much like the French in southern Louisiana. In fact? Perhaps even less. Nothing at all like the solid and primary in the interior SW (NM and AZ). Here (IMHO) is how it can be fairly well summed up (this comes from Raymond Gastil's classic work "Cultural Regions of the United States"), as per the comparrison:
"Unlike the Interior Southwest, neither aboriginal Indian nor Spanish-American culture played a central role in the definition of the area. The people of Texas are mostly from the Lower, Upper, and Mountain South and these Southerners easily outnumbered the Spanish speaking and Indian people even before the state joined the Union. Therefore, when we refer to a large Spanish-speaking population in Texas, we are primarily speaking of a relatively recent immigrant population, quite different from the core areas of the Interior Southwest."
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I don't agree with you're assessment on the Hispanic influence at all. It is there, whether Texans will want to admit it or not. ESPECIALLY, in the border towns. Heck what is Laredo, Los Fresnos, El Paso and and San Antonio, except old Mexican Tejanos? It just depends on what area of the state you live in. Even in a city like Dallas or Houston, where depending on the section or suburb you stay in, you will hardly see an influence of Hispanic culture. Most of the Hispanic influence is concentrated in the cities and on the border. There are a ton of Mexicans who trace their roots back to the Mexican Independence days, before Southerners moved here.
See earlier post reply. It is not a matter of "admitting" anything... it is a matter of historical demographics as to what was the dominating influence on Texas culture/history/politics/religion/etc
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I'm not even Mexican, but to think the Latino influence isn't heavy, is delusional. So what if Non-Hispanics don't speak Spanish? There are a ton of Spanish speakers, Hispanic or otherwise. Tejano Music is the only major type of regional Mexican music based right out of the US, from Texas. You're labeling Texas's Mexican influence the exact same way people label the Black influence. As if the entire state was only settled by and influenced from Anglo Southerners.
Once again, no one is saying that...exactly. But the influence of music -- if that is the facet in this case -- is that original country, and rock n' roll and the blues of Southern anglo's and blacks planted a far greater root than did Latino. As you might acknowlege, the wonderful and beautiful voice of Selena, was something that most of us had never heard of. Outside of the hispanic community, the name really meant nothing.
I hasten to add that this is NOT taking away from the obvious talent, but just to say that -- to be honest -- the singer was unknown for quite a few.
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You just can't label the entire state one thing. Its just too big. East Texas feels, looks, and acts like the Deep South. And the Rio Grande valley, almost feels like an extension of Mexico so some people. But overall, i agree that the South's influence is the biggest one.
On lots of this, on lots of levels, we absolutely agree here. Like most states that border the "Deep South", there are some borderline non-Southern influences. In Texas, the trans-pecos absolutely comes to mind. The far upper-panhandle does as well. So does far South Texas. The same can be said of other states of the Old Confederacy; even if of a different influence. For instance, some of Midwest in Arkansas and Kentucky, and Mid-Atlantic in Virginia and ever more in North Carolina. We all know about Florida.
But we both agree (or so I think), this all has to be put into a proper perspective. While Texas (or the others) may not be the same as Mississippi or Alabama (and that is a seperate subject unto itself as to why the said are taken for granted as the standard of "Southerness"), the overarching trait is that all have more in common with one another than they do with the other regions.
Put another way? Texas is -- as a whole state -- southwestern as in "western South". Arizona and New Mexico are southwestern as in "southern West." Two totally different southwests and always have been.
I'm counter arguing Nairobi's comment that the extent of Mexican influence, is just people picking up breakfast tacos. Essentially, none of the Mexican culture affected this state in any way, save breakfast food.
I think you looked too deep into my argument. Because I agree with you almost 100%. i didnt say that the Mexican heritage of our state was the single biggest influence. But it is short sided to feel it wasn't there.
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The Mexican influence -- while definitely colorful and present -- was pretty much like the French in southern Louisiana.
I'm counter arguing Nairobi's comment that the extent of Mexican influence, is just people picking up breakfast tacos. Essentially, none of the Mexican culture affected this state in any way, save breakfast food.
I think you looked too deep into my argument. Because I agree with you almost 100%. i didnt say that the Mexican heritage of our state was the single biggest influence. But it is short sided to feel it wasn't there.
Spot on.
Perhaps I indeed did.
I think you and I have definitely come to very good terms on all this in general particulars!
I'm counter arguing Nairobi's comment that the extent of Mexican influence, is just people picking up breakfast tacos. Essentially, none of the Mexican culture affected this state in any way, save breakfast food.
I think you looked too deep into my argument. Because I agree with you almost 100%. i didnt say that the Mexican heritage of our state was the single biggest influence. But it is short sided to feel it wasn't there.
Spot on.
I admit that comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but I guarantee you most Texans here would agree that there is truth to it. Most of us can't speak Spanish, most don't listen to Mexican music or celebrate their holidays. The only real mainstay of Mexican culture in an average anglo or black Texan's life is the food, and that is the God to honest truth.
I admit that comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but I guarantee you most Texans here would agree that there is truth to it. Most of us can't speak Spanish, most don't listen to Mexican music or celebrate their holidays. The only real mainstay of Mexican culture in an average anglo or black Texan's life is the food, and that is the God to honest truth.
There is almost -- if anything -- to add to that. I agree 100%
Just as one example? I don't personally celebrate the "Juneteenth" holiday as do many black Texans. BUT? I recognize it as MUCH more a part of Texas history than Cinco de Mayo is or can ever be. Also, very few whites or Africa-American Texans listen to hispanic music/channels. For one thing, the singing is often not even in English.
I hasten to add, that this is not -- in any way, shape, or form -- an insult to the hispanic community; it is just an observation based on years of experience and observations verifying that the real foundations of Texas culture/history were Southern based and forumlated by the anglo/black settlement (even if things were, admittedly, not always pleasant in that regard, either).
Nairobi's post about the Mexican food being about the only real "mainstay" is pretty much -- IMHO -- spot on. And even most of the Mexican food in Texas is "Tex-Mex" (a combination of Mexican, Texan and Southern), not authentic Mexican...and many hispanics will tell you that for sure! LOL
What most parts of the state are you referring to? Watch the movie Giant, when West Texas was living up to that stereotype. Mexican=Culture does not equal Southwest. It influences it. You're doing the exact same thing relating to Southern Culture here.
I don't agree with you're assessment on the Hispanic influence at all. It is there, whether Texans will want to admit it or not. ESPECIALLY, in the border towns. Heck what is Laredo, Los Fresnos, El Paso and and San Antonio, except old Mexican Tejanos? It just depends on what area of the state you live in. Even in a city like Dallas or Houston, where depending on the section or suburb you stay in, you will hardly see an influence of Hispanic culture. Most of the Hispanic influence is concentrated in the cities and on the border. There are a ton of Mexicans who trace their roots back to the Mexican Independence days, before Southerners moved here.
I'm not even Mexican, but to think the Latino influence isn't heavy, is delusional. So what if Non-Hispanics don't speak Spanish? There are a ton of Spanish speakers, Hispanic or otherwise. Tejano Music is the only major type of regional Mexican music based right out of the US, from Texas. You're labeling Texas's Mexican influence the exact same way people label the Black influence. As if the entire state was only settled by and influenced from Anglo Southerners.
What separates the Mexican culture here from say California or Chicago. Is that here in Texas, they embrace the cattle and ranching culture. You probably see more Mexcans wearing and sporting western wear than Texans, especially in Houston. You wont see that in L.A. or San Diego very much at all. So what you get is a meshing of influence, that feels very Texan.
You just can't label the entire state one thing. Its just too big. East Texas feels, looks, and acts like the Deep South. And the Rio Grande valley, almost feels like an extension of Mexico so some people. But overall, i agree that the South's influence is the biggest one.
In SA's case nothing but Tejanos is completely false. It's a blend of Germans, southerners and Hispanic settlers. My cousin from IL was visiting during Fiesta and we attended the parades. Numerous floats passed by celebrating various heritages German, Irish etc. one passed by with young women in giant hoop shirts, the whole southern bell look and my cousin commented we must be in the south.
I'm thinking the Deep South is Harlingen/Brownsville and the Key West islands...
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