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Most of East Texas
Louisiana
Extreme southern Arkansas
Most of Mississippi
Southern Alabama
Southern Georgia
Eastern South Carolina
Extreme southern North Carolina
Northern Florida
Each of these places overlap with other regional identifiers like the Southeast, Western South, Mid South, Piedmont, "Florida", etc.
I agree...sounds like this guy needs to get southern and southeastern lined out.
I think OK feels pretty Southern. It obviously feels a lot different from where I grew up in SW VA which is central Appalachia but the culture of OK certainly feels southern to me...maybe a different type of southern, but southern nevertheless.
Very well said.
The South is not one monolithic region. There are gradations of Southern culture throughout all the states mentioned on this thread......Like you said, "a different type of Southern, but Southern nevertheless."
Living in N. Alabama most of my life, I always sided more with Tennessee than the cotton and peanut regions down south. Every time I'd visit a Tennessee city like Chattanooga, Nashville or Knoxville, it would seem a lot more like Huntsville than Birmingham, Montgomery, or Mobile. It's not exactly a different country down there, but the lack of hills, temperature, people and just overall feel is much different to me. Make no mistake, they are both southern regions in every sense of the word. Just two flavors, that's all. I think in general there is the TVA bond of modern times, and the traditional Scots-Irish settlement of the upper south (and lower north) spreading west from the Appalachian Mountains. One glaring difference is the lack of Greek revival architecture. I mean Huntsville has a few districts like Twickenham, but overall the style is more Federal and log cabin.
Last edited by Hamtonfordbury; 05-05-2013 at 05:47 PM..
I would lump the southern exurbs of places like Atlanta and Birmingham as deep south. In fact, I would put southern Fayette County GA as the epicenter of it.
Living in N. Alabama most of my life, I always sided more with Tennessee than the cotton and peanut regions down south. Every time I'd visit a Tennessee city like Chattanooga, Nashville or Knoxville, it would seem a lot more like Huntsville than Birmingham, Montgomery, or Mobile. It's not exactly a different country down there, but the lack of hills, temperature, people and just overall feel is much different to me. Make no mistake, they are both southern regions in every sense of the word. Just two flavors, that's all. I think in general there is the TVA bond of modern times, and the traditional Scots-Irish settlement of the upper south (and lower north) spreading west from the Appalachian Mountains. One glaring difference is the lack of Greek revival architecture. I mean Huntsville has a few districts like Twickenham, but overall the style is more Federal and log cabin.
I agree...to me Northern Alabama always felt more like my home (southwest Virginia) than coastal areas around SC, GA, MS, or southern Alabama despite all being part of the technical Deep South. Same goes for upstate SC, Western NC, North Georgia, East Tennessee, or Eastern Kentucky. The areas that comprise the cultural Appalachia region are starkly different from the Deep South culture but its fairly evident that they aren't defined by state borders but regional ones. Case in point...southwest Virginia has more in common with north Georgia than it does Richmond or Norfolk. Likewise eastern Tennessee has more in common with eastern kentucky than it does with far western Tennessee. Western NC has more in common with SW Virginia than with Raleigh or Wilmington.
More often than not the only thing that ties us is the football team we root for, lol.
What was considered "the south" (note the lowercase s) in the 18th and 19th Centuries might not be Southern (uppercase S) today. Miami is in the (geographic) south but is not very Southern at all. Memphis is much more Southern though it is much farther north.
Thoughts:
Much of Louisiana is Cajun, not Southern.
Kentucky is not a part of the South. There are too many Northern transplants living there for it to be called the South. And lots of half backs who decided Florida wasn't right for them. The eastern part of the state could arguably be considered Southern but it still suffers from the same crappy state government which seems to have more in common with Northern states than Southern ones.
And most importantly: a big part of being Southern today involves college football. Almost every other Southern state has at least one halfway decent football team and they're probably playing in the SEC. College football is huge in the South - much more so than professional football. Kentuckians by and large don't care about college football. They are primarily a basketball state and are proud of it.
Kentucky: taint the North and it taint the South. It's America's taint. Ditto for Missouri.
Last edited by EVAunit1981; 05-06-2013 at 10:10 PM..
What was considered "the south" (note the lowercase s) in the 18th and 19th Centuries might not be Southern (uppercase S) today. Miami is in the (geographic) south but is not very Southern at all. Memphis is much more Southern though it is much farther north.
Thoughts:
Much of Louisiana is Cajun, not Southern.
Kentucky is not a part of the South. There are too many Northern transplants living there for it to be called the South. And lots of half backs who decided Florida wasn't right for them. The eastern part of the state could arguably be considered Southern but it still suffers from the same crappy state government which seems to have more in common with Northern states than Southern ones.
And most importantly: a big part of being Southern today involves college football. Every other Southern state has at least one halfway decent football team and they're probably playing in the SEC. College football is huge in the South - much more so than professional football. Kentuckians by and large don't care about college football. They are primarily a basketball state and are proud of it.
Kentucky: taint the North and it taint the South. It's America's taint. Ditto for Missouri.
I guess, by your logic, places like Atlanta, Raleigh, and other southern cities with large numbers of transplants aren't part of the South either. It's kind of hard to believe that any part of KY would have more transplants that Atlanta.
Louisville has a pretty good football team...beat Florida in the Sugar Bowl this year. Similarly, NC is primarily a basket all state, so I guess NC isn't southern either.
I'm not sure why you want to exclude areas of the South (upper case S - it's the title of a region of the U.S., thus a proper noun) just because they are not classically southern culture (lower case s - it's an adjective indicating "what kind" of culture). I disagree with you on Miami...it has tons of southern culture mixed with other cultures, so it's false to say it is not southern at all. Auto racing and football are huge in Miami, and the black population there is very southern.
1) Yes, cities are less Southern than other parts of the state. It's like this everywhere because cities attract people from other states and the native culture gets changed.
2) So Louisville had a good run. That doesn't prove anything. They aren't a perennial powerhouse like some SEC teams in the South. More to the point Kentucky isn't full of college football fans who all love Louisville football. Southern states are full of college football fans who care passionately about football.
KY is full of people from farther North. Maybe it could have been considered South at one time but not anymore. IMHO it's an "in between" state. A liminal place between the North and the South. It has characteristics of both but it's neither one.
And yeah I consider NC the least Southern, Southern State.
3) Haven't you ever heard of Florida that the farther north you go, the farther South you get? Miami (along with much of Florida) is full of Hispanics and people from the North. There are a lot of native New Yorkers in Miami. Florida in general seems to attract a lot of Californians. I was in Miami a few years ago on my way to Central America and from what I observed, Miami seems to have more in common with Honduras than "The South". Any Southern elements that remain are vestigial and not the dominant culture at all.
4) People say that the black population in Michigan is Southern - this is an entirely different issue and I don't think it proves your point. I think you're confusing black culture and Southern culture. They're very closely related but not the same thing. Unless you want to say that blacks living in Detroit are Southern.
5) What is that map? Just because you found a map on wikipedia, doesn't make it so. Someone living in west TX or far west OK is Southern? Really?
1) Yes, cities are less Southern than other parts of the state. It's like this everywhere because cities attract people from other states and the native culture gets changed.
2) So Louisville had a good run. That doesn't prove anything. They aren't a perennial powerhouse like some SEC teams in the South. More to the point Kentucky isn't full of college football fans who all love Louisville football. Southern states are full of college football fans who care passionately about football.
KY is full of people from farther North. Maybe it could have been considered South at one time but not anymore. IMHO it's an "in between" state. A liminal place between the North and the South. It has characteristics of both but it's neither one.
And yeah I consider NC the least Southern, Southern State.
3) Haven't you ever heard of Florida that the farther north you go, the farther South you get? Miami (along with much of Florida) is full of Hispanics and people from the North. There are a lot of native New Yorkers in Miami. Florida in general seems to attract a lot of Californians. I was in Miami a few years ago on my way to Central America and from what I observed, Miami seems to have more in common with Honduras than "The South". Any Southern elements that remain are vestigial and not the dominant culture at all.
4) People say that the black population in Michigan is Southern - this is an entirely different issue and I don't think it proves your point. I think you're confusing black culture and Southern culture. They're very closely related but not the same thing. Unless you want to say that blacks living in Detroit are Southern.
5) What is that map? Just because you found a map on wikipedia, doesn't make it so. Someone living in west TX or far west OK is Southern? Really?
Well, I disagree with almost everything you posted but you have a right to feel the way you do. Carry on.
The map is the South according to the Census Bureau...I think it's pretty official.
I've never thought of Guymon OK or Pecos TX as being in The South but if the government says so - it must be true!
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